...We Were Just Saying?

No, really...what were we just saying?
“College is the time when everyone experiences those things such as sex and fun and pleasure. But in those years I’ve had to rot in loneliness. It’s not fair. You girls have never been attracted to me. I don’t know why you girls aren’t attracted to me. But I will punish you all for it.”

“I’ll take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you. You will finally see that I am, in truth, the superior one. The true alpha male."


By now many of you have read about the spoiled little rich boy who went on a mass killing (four men and two women; third woman shot survived after multiple hits). There's not much to add the analysis at this point because, well...this one is pretty straightforward.

I once said that men don't really want women to be in complete control of our sexuality.  They say they do, but they really don't because when we do, we are pickier than ever, not looser than ever.  This boy thought that once he got to college, all the girls would just give it away because that's just we (are apparently supposed to) do.  And when all the fun and pleasurable sexperimentation didn't happen, dude - quite predictably - reached for a gun.
Not surprisingly there are people who assert white male masculinity is the last bastion of hope for this nation. In his mind he’s being assailed on all fronts by immigration, social change; women’s rights and the like. Hampered by his many fears and insecurities the white male ego can be summed up in the persona of a frightened little boy. Spoiled by centuries of privilege he’s a child that’s woefully unprepared for the loss of centrality. Indeed the white man is in crises; for when privilege no longer provides him with comfort he’ll turn to the last friend he has left in this world. His gun.

I don't know the full details about the victims, but as far as I'm concerned, every woman who died without ever giving into this piece of shit is my personal shero, and I shall mourn each woman thusly.  Regardless of how they lived, they did not deserve to die in this manner.  No woman should ever lose her life because of some man-child's miserable ego.

Comments

  1. why do these entitled white male types never think that the reason women are avoiding them is because they can sense that they are abusive assholes, nice guys don't go on mass murder shooting sprees, nice guys don't call women sluts, this kid is rich and well connected in Hollywood yet women still had enough sense not to have sex with him, women's intuition is strong!

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    1. He was mixed Asian and White. Have you read his manifesto? The boy had serious issues.

      Long story short, he wanted a blonde, white girlfriend and, apparently, none of them wanted him. He even expressed his anger & disgust at the fact that a Black guy he met had the chance to lost his virginity to a blonde girl when he was 13 and also when he saw a Mexican man with a blond, white woman. My thing is, if he wanted to have sex so badly, why did he not get a hooker?

      He disliked seeing couples because he was lonely and did not have someone in his life and he couldn't understand why women would throw themselves at "brutes" when he was "the supreme gentleman."

      Can you say delusional?

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    2. He was mixed Asian and White. ...Long story short, he wanted a blonde, white girlfriend

      Thus indicating which side of his ancestry he holds most dear.

      and, apparently, none of them wanted him.

      Quelle surprise.

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    3. Seemed like Elliot not only suffered from Asperger's syndrome,but from the Donald Sterling/V.Viviano syndrome.

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    4. Leo Princess5/25/14, 6:43 PM

      "My thing is, if he wanted to have sex so badly, why did he not get a hooker?"

      You'd think he'd go for the easiest solution, especially in L.A. where there are prostitutes for every budget, but nah. As a friend of mine put it: "because he shouldn't have to pay for it. women should just be giving it to him".

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    5. He specifically discusses that in his manifesto.

      specially in L.A. where there are prostitutes for every budget

      *dies*

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    6. He also had a distaste for Full bloodied Asian men also. He couldn't figure out why they could get white women and he couldn't because he was half white.

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    7. But I think he thought he was too good to have to pay for it if Mexicans and Black dudes were getting it from blond WW. Hookers would be slumming it and also be admitting that the MOC who weren't paying for it were superior.
      His sense of entitlement was FAR to big to spend a dollar for someone to touch his dick.

      Delete
  2. “…Regardless of how they lived, they did not deserve to die in this manner. No woman should ever lose her life because of some man-child's miserable ego.”

    Oh I quite agree. The white male psyche can be likened to a towering structure. If there’s inadequate support the edifice topples quite easily. Hence, some white boys have tremendously inflated egos, unable to weather the slightest tremor/storm that comes along. White people problems seem so trivial/mediocre to the struggles people of color go through every day, yet rarely do you see us writing manifestos and shooting up schools. When everything is handed to you on a silver platter you’re less likely to empathize with the concerns of normal folk because you’ve grown numb to it. Hence, your problems justifiably trump other people’s hardship because you’re special. Equally, when you feel slighted your rage tends to be global. You’re not just mad at a couple of girls who slighted you -oh no- you’re enraged at society itself for birthing those females in the first place. So in your miserable pathos it’s their fault you’ve embarked on mass chaos, certainly not yours.

    To conclude, this is the fodder that shapes fragile egos. Now mind you, I’m not posting the links below to make light of this situation but rather, I’m trying to show just how trivial the concerns of privileged white people can be sometimes. (Oftentimes unintended truth can be gleaned from humor.) Funny how one gets sense of the actor’s self-importance in a video that supposedly parodies white male privilege. Sadly, if all it takes is a few rejections to motivate narcissistic white boys to go on murderous sprees then we’re all in trouble.

    Example #1: White People Problems

    Example #2: White Boy Problems

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  3. Entitlement.
    That's it. Why women don't accept me? Well, the common denominator is me so I should change my ways of doing things. Hmm NO, I don't have to, I'm a man so I deserve women anyway, no matter how wrong I am.
    That's how it is, sadly.

    I also think that we should consider what really instilled deep hatred towards women in him: not only his bitterness but the Men's Right Movement and Pick-Up Artist literature fed his resentment according to an article I read. I'm not justifying him, just saying that misogyny is quite organized sadly and anybody can access these things on the internet. I have seen multiple guys online whose vocabulary sounds very similar to PUA and the like. Many inexperienced guys are easy to impress and will seek those things instead of getting professional help or working on their issues by themselves. And that's a problem, probably not new. But fortunately there are as many who choose the latter. I say this because I once visited a forum (white-male mainly) about late virginity so I don't want people (not you Ankhesen-Mié, I mean in general) to generalize male virgins as psychos who should be feared.

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    1. Now I'm not saying that those misogynists movements are responsible for his crime, HE is totally responsible for it (though he didn't take any responsibility for his own misery before).

      I guess my point was that those movements spread so fast and so well via the internet that any fucked-up dude can access it and become a murderer.
      I also think that it is detrimental to women because men who hold those beliefs are usually sane and normal (unlike this guy). And they date women and it kinda fuck up the dating scene by making it less secure for us women, like making it more difficult for men to relate to women, or making more difficult for these men to tackle their issues to be better partners and person, or manipulating women to score effortlessly and selflessly (nothing new under the sun here, but it makes it even stronger in the dating culture in my opinion, I've read some of their stuff).

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  4. Here is a link to his manifesto. Clearly he was crazy as cat shit.

    http://fusion.net/justice/story/elliot-rodgers-twisted-world-713444

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    1. Here's the thing.

      The article states: "Shooting rampages like this follow a pretty predictable pattern in the media: The outcries of "Well not all men are like this" and "just because he acted and spoke like a Men's Rights Activist (MRA) doesn't mean he was one" have already begun. Elliot Rodger left behind a dual life: One where he had every luxury and privilege, and bitterly resented that women were the only thing he felt entitled to that he couldn't get his hands on. So, according to his manifesto, he wanted to kill them."

      The comments which follow are quite predictable:

      The perpetrator was a person who was clearly in great pain before they lashed out with a trail of senseless violence.

      and

      Every time some absolute insane deranged maniac comes along, we hear stuff like this telling us what is wrong with society, wrong with men, etc. The guy was absolute 100% certifiable nuts and the most self-centered personality I've ever read the writings of. This dude was egocentric to the core, wouldn't matter if he had 50 girlfriends.

      In other words, he was in pain, he was a jerk, this is an isolated incident and let's treat it as such and not have an open an honest discussion about violence towards women and the concept of feminicide overall.

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    2. By the way, I read the last several pages of that manifesto...

      OM-fuckin'-G.

      Delete
    3. The thing is, I dislike using the word "crazy" bc it makes it seem as if being racist is not a natural state of mind for many ppl, which it is, and it makes it seem as if he was not responsible for his actions. His manifesto is pretty clear in its intent. It's ugly stuff to be sure, but I think white supremacy was one area where his mind was working just fine.
      He planned this WAY too well.
      White guys being painted as crazy for gender and race-based violence helps contribute to the disparity in both how they are treated (so a white guy will slaughters dozens of ppl and not get executed) vs. Blacks and Latinos, who are pathologized as being naturally violent, undeserving of sympathy, and always responsible for what they do no matter their mental capacity, age, or mental health.

      There is VERY little sympathy for black and brown boys who commit violent acts despit the fact that many of the ones who do this grow up in horrific circumstances. And most of these men or boys kill 1 person. Not 10 or 25.

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  5. And don't get me started on the fact this asshole - like so many before him - blew his own head off to avoid dealing with any consequences.

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    1. Or the fact that his consequences would still have involved a lot of ppl tutting at how sad and sick he was rather than a raging, misogynistic, racist a$$hole.
      A LOT of ppl sympathize with his plight, and let's be honest, a lot of them agree that it is a travesty that a black man could lay with a WW too.

      Delete
  6. Lather, rinse, and repeat:

    The sister of Peter Rodger told Sky News the family was “in total shock” - and she condemned US gun laws.

    Jenni Rodger, who lives in Cazals, France, said: “I can't imagine how awful this must be for the families of those killed. My heart goes out to them.

    ”I don't know how on earth a sick, disturbed young man was able to get hold of a gun.

    “He was always a disturbed child. I don't know how he was allowed to get a gun. Something has to be done about gun laws in America.”

    ...Relatives had expressed concern about Rodger’s health after he posted a series of disturbing videos online - but no action was taken after officials ruled that the young man appeared to be fine and was “polite and courteous”. Mr Brown said he refused to "second guess" his officers' decision.

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    1. "...Relatives had expressed concern about Rodger’s health after he posted a series of disturbing videos online - but no action was taken after officials ruled that the young man appeared to be fine and was “polite and courteous”. Mr Brown said he refused to "second guess" his officers' decision."

      If memory serves Jeffrey Dahmer was described similarly as he spoke with officers concerning an alleged domestic disturbance.

      Of Dahmer, Marilyn Bardsley pens:
      “The police believed the blond man. They had no reason not to — he was well-spoken, intelligent and very calm. The Asian was apparently drunk and incoherent. The officers, not wanting to get in the middle of a domestic argument between homosexual lovers, left the apartment with Konerak still sitting quietly on the sofa. In that neighborhood, the officers felt that there were more pressing things for them to do.”

      The point being, white males are treated differently by the justice system as they’re given the benefit of doubt. A man of color in the same situation may have had his apartment searched ( just to be on the safe side ) thus, this whole situation could have been averted.

      In most cases whites have the resources/support systems that people of color lack. Troubled white youth are rarely treated as hard-core criminals for there’s always a backstory to consider (family history, abuse/troubled home). Yet for people of color, mental illness is no excuse for criminality (often the consequences of impairment). They’re often treated harshly by a system that chooses to see them as criminals First- and mentally ill only as a Secondary consideration.

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    2. Exactly. And like Zimmerman, though Rodger was not "fully white" as folks have rushed to point out on his YouTube channel (*cue stomach lurch*), he did enjoy white privilege. He also enjoyed class privilege.

      After watching a few of his videos, no wonder his family was concerned. They also need to get a refund back from the hack psychiatrist who was supposedly treating him.

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    3. "After watching a few of his videos, no wonder his family was concerned. They also need to get a refund back from the hack psychiatrist who was supposedly treating him."

      The system fails because of the human element of uncertainty. Years ago I had a client committed after she de-compensated badly. Refusing to take her meds- bathe or care for herself properly. The poor dear was actively hallucinating and responding to unseen stimuli. She was held up in her apartment and wouldn’t come out for weeks, refusing to meet with her doctor or the attending nurse. At that stage in the game she clearly posed a danger to herself and the Probate Court concurred. Presumably, if the client/person presents themselves as lucid, (they know the date and the time; they can carry on a reasonable conversation for 5-10 minutes) not posing a threat to themselves or the community (at the time) it doesn’t matter what they may be saying everyplace else. You can’t commit a person for being belligerent alone. To do so would be in violation of their civil rights. Besides a well-spoken, articulate person like Elliot Rodger would easily fly under the radar of two police officers with little to no training in mental health assessment.

      Some years prior, we had a client (Dwain Wallace) who had been a resident of Woodside Hospital in Youngstown, OH. for some time. Dwain hardly ever spoke to staff, opting to eat most of the time when we took him on field trips. See below:

      Man Storming Pentagon Offices Is Shot to Death by Security Guard:

      Here’s his picture:

      Finally, after several reviews of his case it was found he presented no danger to the community, nor did he appear to voice broken or delusional thoughts. Moreover he demonstrated compliance with his med routine (per goals as laid out in his individual treatment plan). Well it wasn’t a year after Dwain’s discharge that he obtained a gun and headed to the Pentagon with the idea of stopping/preventing a Nuclear war. His plan was to kill the persons in charge of committing our missiles to the air. Ostensibly, there’s no way to predict whether a person is going to be violent or not, no matter how long they’re committed/observed- counseled or treated. They’re never going to tell you what’s really going on in their head. Chances are they’ll tell you exactly what you want to hear. Dwain never voiced ideas of being a high-ranking General either to staff members or his treatment team. It’s like trying to predict whether a dog is going to bite or not. There’s only so much you can do without infringing on a person’s liberty. That’s why many states emptied the mental hospitals in the first place.

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    4. In his manifesto, Elliot talked about being terrified the cops would search his place and find all his guns. Which means we need to institute a new law: all these folks uploading vids threatening to kill themselves and each other need to automatically have their homes search and undergo 72 hours of close observation. Had this happened in Elliot's case, all of this could've been avoided.

      Delete
    5. "Which means we need to institute a new law: all these folks uploading vids threatening to kill themselves and each other need to automatically have their homes search and undergo 72 hours of close observation. Had this happened in Elliot's case, all of this could've been avoided."

      Moreover, let it apply to All Suspects regardless of class or race. No injunctions, no delays- no fancy lawyer tricks because your client has the means.

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    6. And we can name the damn thing after him.

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    7. "And we can name the damn thing after him."

      How about:
      The Elliot Rodger Preemptive Mental Assessment Mandate.

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    8. Does anyone remember how one of Dahmer's youngest victims came to, managed to flee from his apartment into the street, naked and bleeding (from his bottom no less) and the cops caught him and gave him back b/c Dahmer convinced him that this very small brown child was his adult lover and they were just having an argument.
      The child was drugged, bloody, and naked, and they returned him to the man so he could finish him off. That is how effed up white supremacy and notions that they are naturally trusthworthy and law-abiding are.

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    9. Oh, I see I somehow missed that someone mentioned it, but it again should be mentioned that the "Asian" if you ever saw his picture was a SMALL child. How anyone could pretend he was a drunk adult is beyond me.

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  7. I think people shouldn't dismiss his pain of never having had a girlfriend. It's not just sex, even though he did mention that he wanted to experience that, it's the lack of ntimacy with someone who loves you back.
    This and the stigma attached to late virginity. A hooker ain't gonna change anything for him nor ease his pain nor help him with women.

    Now, I don't understand his reasoning and I'm really appalled at his big ass ego. He easily labels others as "losers" and "disgusting-looking", lacks empathy and sensitivity.

    I know that the majority-minority thing is very important in the US, maybe it's this way everywhere? I feel that in my country it's not very different. And in non-white dominated countries as well. It's just that, when frustrated, men won't resort to mass killing women. They'll find other ways to cope (like dating foreign women).

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  8. Here's an excerpt from my blog about this:

    Elliot Rodger not only showed off his male privilege in his text, but also his white privilege as seen in his view of interracial relationships:

    How could an inferior, ugly black boy be able to get a white girl and not me? I am beautiful, and I am half white myself. I am descended from British aristocracy. He is descended from slaves. I deserve it more. I tried not to believe his foul words, but they were already said, and it was hard to erase from my mind. If this is actually true, if this ugly black filth was able to have sex with a blonde white girl at the age of thirteen while I’ve had to suffer virginity all my life, then this just proves how ridiculous the female gender is. They would give themselves to this filthy scum, but they reject ME? The injustice!

    This brings more clues into his true personality. His racism is glaring as he vents about a black male hooking up with a white female while he is left with his virginity. Not only is his misogynistic attitude obvious, but also his white male sexual entitlement...

    It’s hard to feel sorry for Elliot Rodger. Going by his words, he was not looking for love as much as he wanted to get some. He wanted to bang hot chicks, but he got no luck whatsoever. And still going by his words, I can see why.

    Rodger didn’t appear to see women as people. He saw them more as objects for his sexual appetite. And he was starving. Something set him off to the point of no return. And he set out to make others pay. He shot, stabbed and ran over as many people as he could before he ultimately took his own life. All of this is due to the toxic environment of male entitlement that can damage and destroy many lives, not just women but men also.


    http://brothawolf.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/male-entitlement-explodes/

    And mstoogood4yall left this gem:

    Just because the women he was attracted weren’t attracted to him doesn’t mean there wasn’t a woman that was. just because some rejected u doesn’t mean they are the problem, do people ever think that some people reject u because they don’t want a relationship or they know u are not their equal or they are not ur equal. Think about it, the people that u get rejected by are usually not on ur level or u are not on theirs. lastly people say the penis does the pickin but u say women’s attractions are flawed, so when women are superficial and choose a man based on who turns us on its the end of the world, but a guy like this thinks he deserves the tall hot blonde when he himself is not. If u do not possess the traits u expect ur mate to have ur standards are too damn high period point blank.

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    1. Let's not forget his internalized anti-Asian racism. Elliot's first three victims were all Asian and he was appalled when he saw an Asian man with a white girlfriend at a party. He didn't understand how a full-blooded Asian man could get a white girlfriend while he, "a beautiful Eurasian" (to quote his manifesto) could not.

      Furthermore, I do think he was rejected by all women. A commenter on YouTube summed it up perfectly stating that he's exactly that kind of guy who makes us run in the opposite direction. Even if we don't converse with him, we still know something's off and instinctively know to get away. If we do talk this type, we know he'll be the clingy, calling and showing up randomly all the time, always demanding to know where we are and whom we're with and why we even need to have other people (read: men) in our lives. Once I read that comment, I was like, "Oh yeah...bingo."

      Initially, I couldn't figure out why some boyish, rich college kid was having trouble getting laid. We've all seen less attractive, FAR less moneyed men get some from skinny blonde white chicks. Even as I skimmed his manifesto and rolled my eyes, like, "Yeah, whatever...I've met plenty of asshole just like this who weren't virgins at 22."

      But then I watched his videos, saw how he carried himself and listened to his speech patterns. This is the guy women avoid, like, subconsciously. From the moment we see him, a part of our brain simply states "Run", and we don't argue with it.

      lastly people say the penis does the pickin but u say women’s attractions are flawed, so when women are superficial and choose a man based on who turns us on its the end of the world, but a guy like this thinks he deserves the tall hot blonde when he himself is not.

      I tend to agree with this thinking in the sense that, for Elliot, it was okay for him to have a "preference". It was okay for him to have to the right to choose. It was okay for him to a have a fetish - cuz let's be real, he was a fetishist - for blonde women. However, to Elliot, it was not okay for the blondest to have their own damn preferences. It was not okay for them - or per his manifesto, any women - to have the right to choose. To Elliot, it was not okay for his beloved blondes to want bigger, stronger men than he, to want Latino men, to want black men, to want full-blooded Asian men (*gasp*).

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  9. Leo Princess5/27/14, 12:10 AM

    I'm seeing some parallels between Eliot and that guy on Reddit who convinced his 'fat' and 'unattractive' girlfriend to enter into an open relationship, then got sour when he couldn't get the hot women he wanted while she ended up having her pick of men. Dude felt that he was entitled to hot women, and that they'd all fall into his lap just by him existing/without putting in much if any work - much like Elliot. Also, much like Elliot, he couldn't understand why life was so unfair to him. Alas, where were the bevy of beautiful women chasing him a la an Axe commercial?

    Someone responded saying that they could understand why the ladies stayed clear, because 'you sound like the shittiest little prick imaginable'. But, nope, couldn't be that their personalities were repulsive. Nah.

    On a side note, Fox News got some 'expert' to blame the shooting on supposed homosexual urgings. *side-eye* Yea....guy goes on a tirade about how these blonde white girls won't give him what he deserves, how lesser men are having what he ought to be getting, and Fox gets "he must really want men!" from that.

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  10. This kid is creepy! I just read this on Daily Mail:

    "The worst part of this whole ordeal was... the fact that no one showed any concern... If girls had been attracted to me, they would have offered to walk me to my room and take care of me. They would have even offered to sleep with me to make me feel better."

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2640895/Virgin-killer-beaten-left-broken-ankle-robbed-Gucci-sunglasses-tried-push-girls-not-talking-party-manifesto-reveals.html#ixzz32xTPYbPx
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    It is obvious this kid gave something off that repelled people. And he felt that women were supposed to just drop their panties to sleep with him.

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    1. Thank GOD someone else brought that up before me. I will always remember the sheer creepiness of that paragraph.

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    2. I haven't read the entire thing and I do not want to. I still say though it was something about him that women picked up on. The one girl who mentioned him going to a bar and meeting someone. I do not agree. Yes plenty of guys (and girls) do it, but I don't think that would work for him. Even the most promiscuous woman would run the other way from him. What is sad I bet there were women who liked him, but because he had his "type" he ignored them just as he was ignored. I am mad that others had to suffer because he thought they owed him something.

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    3. The one girl who mentioned him going to a bar and meeting someone. I do not agree. Yes plenty of guys (and girls) do it, but I don't think that would work for him. Even the most promiscuous woman would run the other way from him.

      LOL...so I'm reading a lot of great discussions about this guy online, and to be honest...I agree with you 100%. Simply not talking wouldn't have saved Elliot (I laughed when I read that girl's original comment). This dude just gave off a vibe. And it wasn't the Asperger's, it wasn't his racial mix, it wasn't anything that's easily and conveniently explained. People are vehemently avoiding discussing the simple, non-sociopolitical, non-medical fact that Elliot was just a really creepy guy. Some men - and women - give off an often inexplicable repulsive vibe, and a lot them are helpless to fix it, so it's much, much easier to individualize it, medicalize it, and racialize it as much as possible so he doesn't remind them of themselves.

      What is sad I bet there were women who liked him, but because he had his "type" he ignored them just as he was ignored.

      Honey...when Elliot says he was was ignored by all women, I believe that. I believe him when he writes he was invisible and not one girl ever came up to talk to him. I can see that. I have seen that.

      People keep saying he should've branched out, and I say...no thank you. Brown and thick white non-blonde ladies...do you really want the guy who deep down idealizes skinny white chicks? No you do not. He was probably that sullen jerk at the bar whining about how his ideal women rejected him, and so every other woman in the vicinity took that as their cue to reject him as well.

      Seriously...imagine dating the likes of Elliot Rodger. Does he sound like he'd give a shit about your problems? He doesn't strike me as the listening type. Jobs were beneath him...can you imagine listening a 22-year-old whine to his parents for money so he can buy you dinner or a V-Day present? And sex...I shudder to even think. He probably expected that shit on the first date and we already know he wouldn't be no good at it. The self-entitled narcissists never are (trust me).

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  11. Sometimes we lose sight of just how exclusive the privileged white male club can be. If one could peep inside the psyche of a young white male maybe we'd get a glimpse of what Elliot Rodger expected as a full-fledged member. Just where does this presumption of ownership come from? This overwhelming sense of entitlement where women exist only to serve your lascivious needs. What might we glean if such information was made accessible to the public? Hmmm...

    [Warning: The inserted link may contain material unsuitable for children under the age of 18. Bar members are cautioned to exercise care when viewing such material.]

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    1. Monica Lewinsky and Clinton / Sally Hemmings and Jefferson themed party? WTF

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    2. "Monica Lewinsky and Clinton / Sally Hemmings and Jefferson themed party?"

      Only a white man would come up with something like that. I wouldn't be surprised if they dressed up in period costumes to add authenticity to the events.

      "Emails obtained by Valleywag show a slightly younger Spiegel shifting seamlessly from entrepreneur to a guy trying very hard to get girls so drunk, they might have sex with his friends."

      Talk about your rape culture:
      Although the media has labeled drugs such as Rohypnol and GHB as the date-rape drugs of the present, these are only two of the many drugs used to incapacitate a victim. Of the 22 substances used in drug-facilitated rapes, alcohol is the most common.

      So getting a girl so drunk that she was incapable of consenting to intercourse was his idea of having a good time? Correspondingly, if she's unreceptive to your overtures, you have the right to take it by any means necessary- even if it means getting her so stoned she has no recollection afterwards. I wonder just how many white men have gotten away with such crimes by just blowing it off as a what I did during summer camp thing.

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