Um...No...We Can't Be Friends

One thing I've noticed in various blogs and comments is a statement from black people who will say something like, "My friend would never date a black man/woman."  And I also wonder: why the hell are you friends with that person?

This sort of thing bugs the living hell out of Moi.  The day a "friend" admits they would never date a black person is the day they stop being my "friend."

The way I see it, there's no valid reason for not dating one of us.  You're either racist, self-hating, or a coward - none of which are attractive qualities in a friend.  I think we cut our friends extra slack because we think we're judging them by entirely different standards from the ones we use with significant others.  We're not.  Friends are supposed to be attractive too.  They're supposed to have your back, they're supposed to understand you (or at least try), they're supposed to respect you, and they're never supposed to think you and people like you are less than they are in any way.  The moment they do, they're not your friend.

But Ankh, everyone has their preference!

Mm-hm...and "preference" is the racist mot du jour.

Moving on now....

But Ankh, that's their choice!

Um, yeah...you can choose to rob a bank.  You can choose to shoot up heroin.  You can choose to cut a bitch.  The fact that it's your choice doesn't make it okay.

After living in state that's 96% white, I got fed up with "friends" like these really quickly.  They wanted me to be their one black friend/Magical Negress/racial debate insurance/sounding board all in one.  They want to denigrate black people in one conversation, then come to my house for pizza in another.  Fuck that.

Now some of you are saying, "Duh," but that's because I just mentioned white people.  Over on the Blasian Narrative, I've read comments by black women who are friends with Asian guys who would never date black women...you know, because of family pressures.  That's becoming a get-out-of-jail-free card amongst Blasians.  Why?  Black people tend to judge our fellow POC by a slightly different standard from the one we use with whites, and in many cases, it's reeeeaaaallllly not kosher.

Not at the Price of Us

A cowardly person from a racist family does not a great friend make.  There's nothing redeemable in that situation.  It's pretty much toxic all around.  A true friend is supposed have your back, respect you, and weather the storm with you until the end.  A spineless twit from an anti-black family ain't gonna make that happen.

It doesn't matter how great their sense of humor is, or if they mix the best drinks, or if they're willing to watch marathons of your favorite nerdy show with you.  Contrary to popular belief, you can find that shit anywhere, if you simply look hard enough.  And this is precisely what trips people up: humans are not all bad.  With the bad comes some good, but that's not the issue.  The question we should all ask ourselves is: could this person come through for me when it really matters?  And if there's the tiniest whisper in the back of your mind that says no, make the break quick and clean.

This too shall pass

Making the break quick and clean is rarely easy because the other person never seems to let it be that simple.  They whine about being called a racist or spineless, and then try to make it all about your being selfish or judgmental or whatever.  Do not debate.  Roll with the punches.  They can be mad all they want; it's not going to change anything.  You're not going to be friends - end of story.  You won't be taking their calls and they are not welcome in your home.  If they contact you after the conversation ends, tell them you'll get a restraining order.

Some may try to change, claiming they've seen the error of their ways.  Good for them.  Doesn't mean shit to you; it's bullshit.  You don't cease being racist overnight.  You don't spend 2-3 decades being a punk and then suddenly grow a pair.  People can change, make no mistake; but the older they are, the longer it takes.  "You were right and I was wrong" means absolutely nothing.

And don't feel bad about hurting their feelings, because once you get rid of them one of three things will happen:

1) They will make a concerted effort to change.  Believe or not, being called a racist or dickless can be quite a wake-up call for some folks.

2) They'll just find another version of you, dust themselves off, and try again.

3) They'll continue being the utterly worthless, miserable waste of space they are, but they will find a friend who's less likely to call them out on it.

Questions?  Comments?  Dirty looks?

Blast from the Past

The "Culture" Excuse
Black Women, Stop Being the "Platonic Friend"
See also "Memory Laning"

Comments

  1. I was WAITING for you to bring this up. I've read that a lot on the Narrative and can't help but wonder WTF is wrong with those folks. Been smh a lot. I wish I would call someone who can do that my friend. I'd need my ass beat.

    If you are black and you have a friend that insists they would never date a black person, then that should be an IMMEDIATE INDICATOR of what your "friendship" is to them. Run, Forrest, run! Your friendship is akin to a shit stain on a piece of Charmin. Which can be flushed, btw.

    ReplyDelete
  2. I agree with this all day everyday!

    Growing up I was always accused of being mean because of my ability to cut people off if they have harmed me in a manner that is inexcusable. As an adult I still feel the same way. I have no use for a person in my life that I can't count on. There simply is no point.

    The qualities of character I choose to have in a mate are the same that I choose to have in a friend.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Co-sign on this one. I was shaking my head over @ the Narrative. I sat there astonished that a friendship would exist w/someone that has no regard for a person that looks just like you.

    How in the hell is that okay? If someone ever said that shit to me, we're done, over, finito! Quite frankly, I'm tired of the culture excuse. At what point do you become an adult fully capable of making your own decisions about YOUR LIFE?

    If that's they way you roll, stay the hell away from me and mine because we don't need you.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Sigh, I agree in all totally, HOWEVER, while I call one of my asian guy friends who feels this way more of an "associate" (I used him as an example in a more recent BN comment),

    I have a Korean guy friend who I have been best friends with for YEARS. We tell each other everything, grew up together, apart, and then together again. There are members of his immediate family who are racist, but he isn't ashamed to hang out with me, be seen with me, or invite me over. We've been tight; been each other's lifeline in really trying times.

    But, his reluctance to date a black woman (again) comes from the fact that he he dated a black woman who was, in short, bat-shit crazy. He genuinely has deep and damanging scars (both mentally, physically, and emotionally) from where she'd hit him and cut him, and everything. Thankfully, they broke up, and for a time, he REFUSED to date black women because that was just a really bad experience for him.

    And I felt the same way as you did about him being a coward. I wondered, "Great, how does he see me? Am I no different than that crazy bitch he dated? Does he seem me as the same? Does he see my SISTER the same way? What about my mother? What about his random black neighbor?", but when you look at how the media is portraying us as insane, ghetto, and violent women, it isn't hard to see why he would feel that way, even if we ALL know that not all black women are like that, but not once did it affect our friendship and we're still very close. He even confided in me that I would be the ONLY black woman he would ever date if our relationship progressed that far (which I can tell you it never will only because we're like siblings), and while we still still talk several times a week, we often talk about his reluctance to date black women. Over time, he's slowly opening back up to the idea of dating black women, but I think there are exceptions to that rule. It's a BAD exception and it's a prime example of generalizing, which I should be offended by as a black woman, but at the same time, I know he means no offense in general.

    I'm not trying to make excuses for him by any means or claim myself as "immune". In fact, I still get annoyed by him, but I'm just saying that maybe there are more reasons for why someone wouldn't date outside their race that go beyond social pressure or racism.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Are people considering associates as friends and even so why would you want to associate with someone like that?

    ReplyDelete
  6. @Aiyo, when I said "associate", I MEANT "associate". Meaning when we did see each other or talk, it was as classmates and nothing further. What I was trying to convey was that it's different situations for different people, and why I'm still friends with my FRIEND (and NOT associate) despite his reluctance to date black women. An "associate" is someone impersonal to you. Someone you don't really talk to; only tolerate when you have to, and because of that impersonal relationship you have with an "associate" some of these little quirks you don't find out about until later.

    ReplyDelete
  7. And even after I found out from my "associate" that he was terrified of dating black women because his family would "kill him", I continued treating him as an associate. Just someone I had to talk to when I had--such as for homework, or etc. But I never let him into my close circle, of which my Korean best friend is apart of despite his reluctance towards dating black women.

    ReplyDelete
  8. @Kurosune-hime

    I wasn't talking about you directly, I honestly did not even see your comment when I posted mine.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I'm just trying to see myself being friends with a non-Black man who would say that about Black women...Nope, it wouldn't happen.

    So far, the people I've been around are IR inclined,but I recalled one incident where it was similar to the post though it didn't directly involve me. There was a White guy who I knew,but never considered him to be a friend or a close associate.He seemed like the kind of man that would give you the shirt off his back, very nice and an anti-racist as he seemed to have problems with racist people.

    That seemed all good for a while until one of we were in a group and the topic of IR dating came up. Most of my non-Black friends was ok with it,but the White guy struggled and just said he didn't agree with IR relationships and when the the professor asked him for his reason behind his feeling it was like a "Duh.. I dunno" kind of answer. I was never a friend of his,but for him to say that took me by surprise and of course I became more estranged from him.So much for being anti-racist.

    I'm sorry I just cannot see myself being friends with a non-Black man who talks like that. It's no better than him saying the "N" word in my face.

    ReplyDelete
  10. @ Kurosune-hime

    These are just my opinions. Your close friend still fits my profile.

    But, his reluctance to date a black woman (again) comes from the fact that he he dated a black woman who was, in short, bat-shit crazy. ...and for a time, he REFUSED to date black women because that was just a really bad experience for him.

    If he dated a white or Asian woman who did this to him, he wouldn't give up white or Asian women. And if he dated each a black, Asian, white, and Latina/Native American woman, and they all treated him badly, he wouldn't just give up women altogether.

    No, no...only the black woman is always "give-uppable" when she goes psycho.

    but when you look at how the media is portraying us as insane, ghetto, and violent women, it isn't hard to see why he would feel that way

    We've been over this, but here's a quick refresher. We live in a country where Asians are portrayed as perpetually foreign math nerds who "can't speak Engrish too good." We live in a country where Latinos are potrayed as low-class thieving, murdering, coke-dealing cockroaches swarming across the border. We live in a country where the Native American is invisible, unless her story can be twisted to show how awesome white people are/were, even when committing genocide.

    In short, any POC who lets American media teach them all about other POC is a goddamn fool.

    Also, be wary of non-black POC who seem to conveniently forget how they are portrayed in the media. Guys like your friend are probably comfortable with the stereotype that black women are loud and crazy, but not so comfortable with the stereotype of Asian men being effeminate and physically incapable of satisfying a woman.

    He even confided in me that I would be the ONLY black woman he would ever date if our relationship progressed that far

    That's not a compliment, by the way. That's never a compliment.

    we often talk about his reluctance to date black women. Over time, he's slowly opening back up to the idea of dating black women, but I think there are exceptions to that rule. It's a BAD exception and it's a prime example of generalizing, which I should be offended by as a black woman, but at the same time, I know he means no offense in general.

    I'm not trying to make excuses for him by any means


    Yes, you are. More importantly, you're trying to "convert" him. You're his friend, you're "tight", and you've invested a lot of time and emotion in him. You don't want to feel like you've wasted a whole part of your life on someone who is, in fact, racist...in all the classic and textbook senses of the term.

    It's understandable, but no less healthy.

    I'm just saying that maybe there are more reasons for why someone wouldn't date outside their race that go beyond social pressure or racism.

    That's just it: there aren't. We'd like to think so; it saves us heartache when we do. But the truth is, that right there is whitespeech, for lack of a better word. It's right up there with "Just because it's my opinion doesn't make it racist" or "I just don't see any chemistry between this (or any) interracial couple."

    ReplyDelete
  11. With all due respect, Moi, and I have a LOT of respect for you, I still beg to differ.

    "If he dated a white or Asian woman who did this to him, he wouldn't give up white or Asian women. And if he dated each a black, Asian, white, and Latina/Native American woman, and they all treated him badly, he wouldn't just give up women altogether."

    We don't know this to be an iron-clad fact. What I do know to be true is that he has in fact dated women of different races, from asian, to latina, to white, to black (and he HAS dated black women before), and guess what? He doesn't like dating white women either, but does that make him racist? No. I honestly don't believe so. If him choosing to date (and yes, I saw that blog on "preference") or not date a specific race of a woman makes him racist or doesn't make him racist, then what if we flip the script for a minute?

    What do we say to black women who choose to date ONLY black men? Or black women who choose to ONLY date asian men or white men? Do we just give them a pardon because they are black women? I've noticed that a lot; it's okay if a black woman has her own "preference", but if it's a MALE POC or a NON-POC, they can be labeled racist in a heartbeat and that's a double standard that's just not fair.

    In short, any POC who lets American media teach them all about other POC is a goddamn fool.

    Also, be wary of non-black POC who seem to conveniently forget how they are portrayed in the media. Guys like your friend are probably comfortable with the stereotype that black women are loud and crazy, but not so comfortable with the stereotype of Asian men being effeminate and physically incapable of satisfying a woman


    Honestly your first statement I couldn't agree more with. I honestly share that sentiment. However, with the second one about how my friend isn't comfortable with the whole "not being able to physically satisfy" women---he doesn't let it get to him. Period. Oh, sure, it IRKS him from time to time, but he's expressed just sort of a "Meh. Let them believe what they want to believe because I know differently" mindset. (Usually leads to funny conversation, but I digress.)It's not like we haven't sat down and watched some show (usually Maury.) where a black woman is seen acting just a damn fool. I'll never forget when he turned to me and asked, "Why do Black women act that way?" and I just said, "Well, not ALL black women act that way," and he was quick to say, "I know THAT, but why do certain black women act like that?".

    Note: "certain". Not all. He knows not all black women act this way.

    ReplyDelete
  12. (And before I even began replying to this, I called him and had a lengthy, note-taking conversation about this whole, "how do you feel about black women and their attitudes" thing, so I'm not just spouting off.)


    He even confided in me that I would be the ONLY black woman he would ever date if our relationship progressed that far

    That's not a compliment, by the way. That's never a compliment.

    How isn't that a compliment? How isn't it a compliment to know he would rather be with someone like me, who is educated, speaks well, and doesn't act like the stereotypical "hoodrat"? So, again, something I brought up during our conversation when I was debating on how to respond to your reply. When I asked him, "is it because I "act like a white girl"?" and he said quote: "No. It's because you exhibit class. You don't get loud and larry (unless provoked), and you carry yourself with dignity and self-respect as any woman should". End quote.

    And it's not like he's "overlooking" me being black, either. He sees me as a WOMAN, but doesn't forget that I am also a black woman.

    I consider it a compliment that he sees me as a woman, as well as NOT the stereotypical black woman. Why wouldn't I consider it to be a compliment? But make no mistake, if he had said, "Because you act white," THEN I would have gone all out on him.

    we often talk about his reluctance to date black women. Over time, he's slowly opening back up to the idea of dating black women, but I think there are exceptions to that rule. It's a BAD exception and it's a prime example of generalizing, which I should be offended by as a black woman, but at the same time, I know he means no offense in general.

    I'm not trying to make excuses for him by any means

    Yes, you are. More importantly, you're trying to "convert" him. You're his friend, you're "tight", and you've invested a lot of time and emotion in him. You don't want to feel like you've wasted a whole part of your life on someone who is, in fact, racist...in all the classic and textbook senses of the term.

    It's understandable, but no less healthy.


    THIS is where I took the most offense and disagreed STRONGLY. I am NOT trying to convert him. HELL. NO. I don't "convert" and say, "Come to the dark side". No, I am NOT trying to convert him, period. Whenever we DO talk, I'm not like, "Well, what's wrong with a black woman?! You don't know...!" and just shove all of this nonsense down his throat. Like I said, we TALK about it, but it's not like I'm going to force it all down his throat. Why would I even do that? It's wrong. It's very wrong.

    And I stand by what I say when I say he is NOT racist. Not by any means just because he is reluctant to date black women. That's unfair and purely asinine to assume someone is instantly racist. So, is my sister racist because she chooses to date ONLY black men? Am *I* a racist because I get annoyed every time some ghetto thuggy black man tries to approach me, or am I just completely turned off by his ghetto style?

    ReplyDelete
  13. I know you're thinking, "Oh, you're young, you have ZERO clue what you are talking about", but I know this to be a fact. EVERYONE is "racist" to a certain extent. EVERYONE. So, just because of my Korean friend's reluctance to date a black woman, that instantly labels him as a classic, textbook definition of racist? Moi, I strongly disagree. I STRONGLY disagree. I've seen and experienced racism, some of which, just blow me away. But I know my friend. I know him WELL, and we ARE tight, not "tight" as you put it.

    If he were a TRUE textbook definition, as you call him, he wouldn't even TOLERATE me being around him, and that's the truth. What if he started dating black women again? Would he be less racist and all right with the world?

    Even in loving and deep interracial relationships, racism exists. There's always that subtle, thin barrier, but they don't wage war with each other, but instead choose to love each other. That isn't to say that they IGNORE it, either. They acknowledge it and continue to see each other as just a "man" and a "woman". But, "my black wife" or "my white husband", just as my friend chooses to acknowledge that I am black, and doesn't IGNORE it and pretend that I'm not, and that's why I would be the woman he would want to date.

    Now, I can understand that racism exists in subtle forms, and even those close to me have racist tendencies (both black, white, asian, latino, etc), and yes, I even say my own family. RACISM EXISTS EVERYWHERE AND WE CANNOT ESCAPE IT, only choose to continue to show that person why they are wrong?

    Moi, if you had racist family members who were prejudiced against whites, hispanics, and asians like mine are, would you still refuse to talk to them or associate with them because of those views?

    My friends and family members may have different views on what they believe, but it doesn't make me see them or love them any differently.

    In the end, everyone is a little racist to an extent, but we can't do anything about it except continue to do US, and show them why they are wrong. Maybe they will see it, and maybe they won't ever see it, but that's fine too, because as long as we, as individual black women know WE are not as THEY see us, then why try and stretch it beyond that?

    ReplyDelete
  14. @ Kurosune-hime

    Am I making you angry?

    Check it out:

    What do we say to black women who choose to date ONLY black men?

    Anyone who sticks to a specific race and rejects all others - or specifically another - has an issue. Flip the script any way you like, hon, your friend still fits the profile.

    he has in fact dated women of different races, from asian, to latina, to white, to black (and he HAS dated black women before), and guess what? He doesn't like dating white women either, but does that make him racist? No.

    That's not what I said. I said if these other women acted "batshit crazy" he wouldn't be so eager to give them up.

    How isn't that a compliment? How isn't it a compliment to know he would rather be with someone like me, who is educated, speaks well, and doesn't act like the stereotypical "hoodrat"?

    Because he doesn't say "like you"...he says "you", meaning "you, Kurosune-hime, are the exception to the rule that black women are undateable for me." It's like being called a Good Darkie.

    Like I said, we TALK about it, but it's not like I'm going to force it all down his throat.

    You don't have to shove it down his throat in order for it to qualify as converting. The point of this post - and what others are on here are saying - is that you don't talk about it all. When a person says something negative about black people period, that's a sign to back away.

    And I stand by what I say when I say he is NOT racist. Not by any means just because he is reluctant to date black women. That's unfair and purely asinine to assume someone is instantly racist. So, is my sister racist because she chooses to date ONLY black men? Am *I* a racist because I get annoyed every time some ghetto thuggy black man tries to approach me, or am I just completely turned off by his ghetto style?

    EVERYONE is "racist" to a certain extent. EVERYONE. So, just because of my Korean friend's reluctance to date a black woman, that instantly labels him as a classic, textbook definition of racist? Moi, I strongly disagree. I STRONGLY disagree. I've seen and experienced racism, some of which, just blow me away. But I know my friend. I know him WELL, and we ARE tight, not "tight" as you put it.


    You're getting defensive and contradicting yourself. And when I said "tight", I was merely quoting you.

    Yes, you are young, and yes, when you get older (and more tired) you will look this situation differently. I write my posts to simply give younger black women a heads up. But I'm willing to bet actual money that when you hit my age, you will look back at this situation differently. Because many black women have already gone through this, and 99.999999% we arrive at the same unpleasant conclusion.

    There are varying degrees of racism; some are like the situation with your friend, and some like we experience with hostile white people. They are are classic and textbook in that they are common and recognizable. Your friend's situation isn't special. They are plenty of people just like him. They're not evil; that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's not our job to educate/enlighten them. That's something they have to do on their own of their own choice.

    Because the day your friend decides to plunge headlong into AMBW, it ironically won't have a damn thing to do with your discussions. What you told him won't even be the slightest factor. It will simply be because that's what he wants to do; humans are simple that way. We're beings of free will. Your friends doesn't date black women because he chooses not to, and no one can change that but him.

    ReplyDelete
  15. @ Everyone else

    Thank you for understanding the point of this post. Some of you are in my, ahem, age bracket, and so you know what I mean about how your mind changes when you get older.

    Feel free to share experiences you've had with "friends" like these.

    When I was Kurosune-hime's age, I made the same arguments. Not "similar" arguments, the same. It was damn near verbatim.

    It's kinda creepy what getting older does to you.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Thanks, Moi. I definitely understand; and it's weird that you said the same things too hahaha No, I definitely don't doubt you when you say I'll understand; especially because now that I've read it, I understand a bit more now. Thanks; I mean it.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I would just like to point out that I am 19, just throwing it out there.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I would just like to point out that I am 19, just throwing it out there.

    Young lady...I'm going to need some verifiable documentation on that because I've been reading you for a minute and you astound me. You are an anomaly, Missy!

    ReplyDelete
  19. I had a few friends in HS like this...and what made them even more infuriating is they had overt physical attractions to Black women.

    Another friend who I did keep in touch with over the years J. We got extremely close in HS until I started to like him...then this subject came up (he's Chinese with a psychotic mother who he really didn't want to confront). By college, the pain of that finally got too much for me, I tore him a new asshole and refused to speak to him. When I did speak to him again, I pretty much had this entire conversation and rather emotionally said "if you see me as just another n****r, we can't be friends."

    That hurt him...deeply, but he got the hint. We talked it over and he apologized profusely and admitted he never should have said he wouldn't date me because I was Black, and that he only turned me down because he didn't want to be with anyone...but for some reason, fixed his mouth to say what he said. We're friends again, but the scars from that wound are still there. As we got older, it was more clear that his issues were more around women in general - to this day, he's never dated. And I've turned my attentions towards my current partner and family, so we don't see as much of each other. Admittedly, I had a feeling once I did meet someone, our friendship would wane inevitably. I never told him that though.

    In hindsight, having "friends" who refused to date Black women left substantial damage to my self-confidence. To this day, it's really hard for me to pick up cues that a man is interested in me non-platonically. I wish I'd known then that it's not a normal thing to have no desire to date Black women and that any man's capable of respecting us and loving us as they would any woman IF they want to. Thankfully, I'm now with a man that does.

    ReplyDelete
  20. I agree with you totally. I absolutely hate when anyone decides to drop this "lovely piece of enlightenment" and it serves as a sign for me to drop them deuces and roll out. No matter how long I've known them previously.

    I've had 2 "friends" one I knew for 7 years the other I knew for 3, both of them told me that they didn't date black people (I hit the jackpot right?).

    One of them apparently also had a "bad experience" with a black man. Even though she's hardly had a healthy relationship with any man, I'm supposed to believe that this one bad experience (and it was bad) bars ALL black men from being dateable.... really?

    The other swore up and down that she found black women attractive, but "for some reason just couldn't date one." Those were her exact words..to me .... yeah.

    It took some time, but needless to say I've dropped them both.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I wish I'd known then that it's not a normal thing to have no desire to date Black women and that any man's capable of respecting us and loving us as they would any woman IF they want to.

    BINGO. It's NOT normal. It's NOT healthy. And that's why people are becoming particularly obsessed with the issue of "opinion" right now, because they don't want to deal with the fact that racism is an unnatural human invention, conveniently forgetting that humans aren't born thinking this way.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Perla Buttons7/10/11, 7:18 AM

    "A cowardly person from a racist family does not a great friend make. There's nothing redeemable in that situation. It's pretty much toxic all around."

    "The question we should all ask ourselves is: could this person come through for me when it really matters? And if there's the tiniest whisper in the back of your mind that says no, make the break quick and clean."

    I really appreciate this post. As an Aussie of Filipino/mixed White European heritage, this hit home. I've recently ended a relationship with a completely White bloke and you've hit upon one of the reasons I won't be seeing him again - he never had my back. He was a coward when it came to his mates and family spewing hateful bullshit.

    Asian fetishes and stereotyping? They mean well.
    Friends joining anti-non-white immigration groups? Nothing to do with him.
    Family complaining about "Indians" committing the egregious crime of living near their lily-white selves? They didn't mean it in *that* way, plus they prefaced everything with "I'm not racist, but..." Etc, etc.

    Sorry for the mini-rant, but I'd just like to say that you've struck the nail on the head and clarified some of the qualities I need in people I let into my life - friends or partners. I have an ever-reducing capacity tolerating bullshit.

    ReplyDelete
  23. @ Perla!

    Welcome! Glad to be of service!

    ReplyDelete
  24. @Kurosune,

    And even after all of that "You're the only BW I'd date" mess, HE STILL AIN'T DATIN' YA!

    I swear, a hard head makes for a soft behind. And you young women seem hell bent on being thoroughly tenderized. You all need to actually LISTEN to us older BW. As Ankh said, the vast majority of us have already been down that road and come to the SAME conclusions and endings. But you all don't believe us or use some lame excuse like, "Well, times are different NOW from when YOU were coming up!" No baby, the calendar has little to do with people's attitudes. Only active change does that not the mere passage of time.

    @acidcookiegirl, hearing regularly about how you are undateable for whatever crazy reason DOES take a toll on your self-esteem. Like you, I can't tell if a man is interested in me non-platonically. It took my husband telling me that he could see from their behavior that most of my White male friends would jump at the chance of dating me if I were available. I thought they were just "being nice."

    All we're telling younger BW is to open their eyes and ears and take what they see and hear as the truth. People eventually reveal who and what they are. Like Maya Angelou said, "When someone tells you who he is, BELIEVE HIM!" We're not telling you to forget about dating whole races of folks. We're just saying VET who you let in your sphere. And we're also warning you that some folks just ain't worthy of your time and efforts. And that we know this from hard won experience!

    We're not saying that all young BW are idiots who have to be told to come in out the rain by us genius and wise older BW. We just see some of the pitfalls you are going to experience because most of us have already busted our asses in them. So try and stop being so damn hard-headed and LISTEN TO US!

    ReplyDelete
  25. Witch, welcome back! You have been missed...and as usual, you put the shit out there and broke it down so that it is forever and consistently broke. Younguns act like we don't know what we're talking about (and most of us felt the same towards our mothers), but experience truly is the best teacher.

    We're just saying VET who you let in your sphere. And we're also warning you that some folks just ain't worthy of your time and efforts. And that we know this from hard won experience...We just see some of the pitfalls you are going to experience because most of us have already busted our asses in them.

    But even with this said, understood and co-signed to the nth power, some younguns will still head down that road, get busted and come running for sympathy or a pity party. Fuck that. You were warned.

    Anyway, Witch...glad you're back.

    Pank

    ReplyDelete
  26. Amaya,

    Thanks for the welcome back.

    Yeah, I've had so many young BW basically igg what I was trying to tell them, get all heart-busted, and then wanna come cryin' on my tit, that (and I've told you about a couple of them), for the most part, I've stopped trying to advise young BW on anything even if I see them headed for that cliff. One chick came to me (CAME TO ME) for advice and insight, consistently ignored what I said because it wasn't the answer she wanted to hear, went and did her own thing only to have that fail inevitably and then would come back to me bitching, pissing and moaning about the outcome. I let ol' girl go after a while, as you can guess. I got no time for heffas that seem to WANT to be used and abused. And I surely am not interested in being an ignored sounding board.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Oh and another reason why the whole "preference" thang is nothing more than racist bs. Over the years, I've heard and read stories about how mixed-looking BW have been questioned as to their heritages and how disappointed the asker was to be told they were plain ol' Black chicks with two Black parents. Now why would the inquirer be disappointed? Ol' girls facial features didn't contort as she explained her true racial makeup. Her IQ didn't just drop and she went from using SAT words to simple monosyllables. Her hair didn't fall out in front of their eyes. In other words, nothing about the woman changed, nothing but their PERCEPTION of her due to their racist biases and views. She was still the same lovely, lively, intelligent woman that attracted them, but now, to them, she's all covered in the icky Negro.

    I've gotten similar treatment. Except, since I obviously cannot pass for anything but Black, I get the "so where are you from" deal, implying that since I'm educated and multilingual I MUST be a foreign Negress. I get the same looks of disappointment when I let them know I'm a reg'lar ol' "domestic stock" Negress born of two Black American parents, descended from Southern Black slaves. Basically it's the attitude of "if you MUST be a nigger, couldn't you at least be a foreign, EXOTIC one?!"

    It's what Ankh talked about in her Black women and attraction to them post. This is folks allowing their UNNATURAL feelings of racism get in the way of their very NATURAL attraction. How does a lovely, attractive woman suddenly become ugly because you found out she's Black?

    And for all this "preference" talk, they're usually based on some mess. A man may claim that he doesn't date BW because we're all fat. Okay then wouldn't he avoid ALL fat women? Wouldn't he date thin BW? Usually that guy just avoids ALL BW regardless of body size, so it's not about weight. It's about how he feels about BLACKNESS period.

    So anyone telling you that they don't date BW for this or that crap reason, understand it's not about that reason at all. It's about how they view Blackness as less-than or not-as-good-as. And if they view Blackness that way, chances are they view your Black ass in the same light.

    ReplyDelete
  28. How does a lovely, attractive woman suddenly become ugly because you found out she's Black?

    Billion-dollar question.

    ReplyDelete
  29. First, I am French, so sorry for some of the grammatical mistakes lol.
    I have to take the time to thank the LORD to have make me find your website Ankhesen Mie. It is just incredibly genius, well written, supported with real facts and sources, and simply non-apologizing. So, thank you, thank you, thank you and thank you again.
    Reading your blog have make me realize that they're so many things that I still don't know and it makes me want to just go to the closest library next to my house and read THOUSANDS of social/psychological/economical books.
    Concerning the topic,
    As for a young woman of 19 years old who have never start dating, I have still not experienced racism in a interracial couple.
    And I don't want to.
    I've always had some ''preferences'' and it's right now that I realized how much ''naive'' (or maybe stupid)I was. There's only one thing that I can say to you, Witchsistah and Amaya: I am listening really carefully to what you guys are trying to say and I AM TAKING NOTES !! I need to be aware of certain disturbing things happening around me and I need to STOP CLOSING MY EYES !!
    I've had a best gay friend for 7 years. Because of his sexual orientation, which have always made him being judged by others, I've always thought that he would actually understand how difficult is to be a young black woman of colour and how I have to fight stereotypes every single day of my life. Oh well, I was clearly making a mistake.
    -He ALWAYS used to say that he would NEVER date a black man . ''Since they are homophobic he didn't know why he should be trying to be attracted to them''
    -I ALWAYS tried not to mind the dirty looks he was giving black gay male when we were walking in the gay village (he always said that it was because they were too much effeminate)
    - I tried not the be insulted when he said: ''But you're different, you're not like the other black people, you're more acting like a white'' or : ''I'm friend with you, I'm not racist''
    - He always said that he hated Arabic people because they are hateful towards gays.
    The fact that he didn't have any black or POC as friends should have given me a clue lol.
    Oh well, one day, I decided to cute ties with him. I didn't really know why. At this time I just didn't see him as a racist but simply uneducated or the ''victim of social media stereotypes'', like I used to say.
    3 days ago, he contacted me, asking me if we could meet again, that I missed him, etc.
    I actually didn't answer, and thanks to you, now I do know why. This person is out of my life, for real and forever.
    I don't care how funny, smart, beautiful or cool you are. You are disgracing people of my race; you are disgracing myself (whatever your reasons are). Race doesn't define one person and if in 21th century you still haven't realized that, then maybe you should think about moving on in a cave, somewhere in a deep forest, far away from society and never get out of it.
    I will never try to excuse this kind of thinking ever again, either it is for a friend, a boyfriend or my cat.

    ReplyDelete
  30. @ Anonymous

    Leave a name, please!

    ReplyDelete
  31. I'm sorry ! I actually have a blogger account but I don't know why, it doesn't aloud me to post a comment.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Mello

    I've never had friends like that. Never had white friends acting weird with me.

    ReplyDelete
  33. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And to me, you're an attention-seeking troll who really just played the "my best friends are black" card, like...really. You don't even deserve pity.

      Like most trolls, you claim to not really care about the implications of this post, but you couldn't stop from saying something. Mm-hm, I get it. You were secure in your outdated "my black friends" card but now you realize that's it not enough to save you from the dreaded racist label which, by the way, white people tend to get upset over, not some "brown-skinned gal of non-African origin."

      A brown-skinned gal ought to know better than to pull the "all Negroes I've met" routine.

      Delete
  34. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes. It is my blog. Thank you for your generous permission to delete idiotic comments on my blog.

      And I know you weren't lying...how now?

      Delete
    2. Oh, honey...you can quit now. You're already on auto-delete.

      Delete
  35. This is a very interesting post..OK just a little bit about myself I am a 38 year old black woman who has been married to a white man for almost 11 years..and I am very interested to know how "old" the people are who claim to be elders..Cause I am wondering if I am older than you guys...

    OK to break into the post..I totally see what you are saying and totally get the point and for the most part agree..people should find anyone a little suspect when they say they would not date someone who is like "you"..but yet "you" are the exception to that rule.,Like you hold some sort of special halo over your head for not being like "the others"...But, and keep in mind I had most of my 20's to do the dating scene before I actually settled down..Isn't there such a thing as physical preferences that have nothing to do with the racial baggage our society gives us?..I see physical preferences completely different from alieniating an entire culture of people..Some people just seem to have a preference for a certain phenotype..I know white men to this day, who just don't like the blond hair blued eyed phenotype and prefer darker skinned, darker haired women no matter HOW MUCH society pushes that whole blond/blue eyed standard of beauty down our throats...My husband is one of them in fact...You would be hard pressed to hear him say he finds any "nordic looking" woman attractive...Like I said its a physical preference for him...But he still would not rule out all white women as potential mates...well he WOULD because we are MARRIED...but you get my point...LOL

    Another interesting thing that I have found in my "older age" and I believe is the flip side to this discussion..Is to BEWARE of the person who IS willing to date, screw and marry a POC...I used to think that white folks that dated blacks were automatically unracist...and I would give them a free pass..After all, here they were publicly displaying their IR relationship for all the world to see...But after hearing about the Chelsea Handler debacle and how she utterly 50 cent...and here is a white woman that was supposedly proud to date her black man until he got on her bad side...hell she was even introducing him to family and inviting him on family outings...So not only should we be wary of the friends that wont date a POC we should also be suspect of those who WOULD as to their true motivations..

    As usual very good post Ank..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not talking about phenotypical preferences - we all have those. I'm talking about racial preferences. Folks often try to make them out to be the same and they're not.

      Thanks for the commentary, and by the way, you're not older than most of the "elders" on this blog.

      Delete
  36. truthbetold5/4/12, 4:48 PM

    Had a white girlfriend in my 20's I called Sister-Friend. She'd come to my house, help me wash clothes, rake leaves, drink wine, chill and watch The Twilight Zone marathon on new years.

    Then she dropped the bomb.
    She doesn't understand why any white man would choose, ON PURPOSE, a black mate.
    Whhhhhhaaaaaaaat??????

    *sigh*

    Now I have zero white friends.
    You know what?
    I'm better off.

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment

This blog is strictly moderated. Everyone is now able to comment again, however, all Anonymous posts will be immediately deleted. Comments on posts more than 30 days old are generally dismissed, so try to stay current with the conversations.