"I Would Never Date a Black Woman"

Eldest Sis chillin' in my new crib.
Damn, if feels good to have my internet set up in my new home.  Took long enough!  *sniff*  Big city folks and their goddamn schedules....

Anyhoo, so I've been reconnecting with the family, talking about the usual and seeing new aspects to old ish.  The siblings and I were at the Eldest Sis's house talking about black women stuff when the Eldest Sis brought something to my attention which I believe I missed earlier.

With age really does come wisdom.

She talked about one of her best buds, a fortysomething black male drummer who really doesn't have his ish together.  No steady job and no advanced education, but at least his prison record's intact.

At this point, I should probably hastily explain to you all that the Eldest Sis tends to collect quite the variety of friends.

Anyways, she initially approached him as a potential significant other.  She didn't know his whole deal at the time (this was almost a decade ago), but he was fun, spontaneous, good-looking, and an actually a very good musician.  Still is.  So the Eldest Sis was looking at this guy as a potential boyfriend, and the moment he picked up on that, he flat-out told her, "I would never a date black woman."

Needless to say, the Eldest Sis was quite stung, but over time she got over it once he not only revealed his prison record, but briefly went back to prison for doing some new shit.  Yes.  His reasoning also had a lot to do with her getting over it; the explanation wasn't anything new: black women expect too much, blah blah blah, black woman want you to have a job, blah blah blah, go to school, blah blah blah, be reliable, blah blah blah, be an overall decent human being, blah blah blah - you know...irrational, unreasonable expectations like that.

So the eldest started seeing someone else, and learned that the guy - we'll call him "Mike" - was seeing a white woman - we'll call her Sally.  While Mike was stuck in the Big House, Sally and the Eldest Sis got to know each other and were quite friendly.  The elder one noted that Sally - unlike Mike - had a full-time job, was continuing her education, AND raising a child (not Mike's).  Overall, the Eldest Sis deemed Sally to be a perfectly nice lady and a fairly decent mother.  Sally's only issue, however, was that she weighed over 400 lbs.  Still does.

One day, while Mike was still in the Big House, Sally came over to visit the Eldest Sis and they got to talking.  Sally confessed to my sis, "You know, when I first met you, I was a bit intimidated."

To which the Eldest Sis raised an eyebrow, "Pourquoi?"

Sally answered her uncomfortably, "I thought you and Mike might be having a thing on the side.  I was afraid he might eventually leave me for you."

My sis laughed and told her not to worry because Mike didn't date black women*.  When a very confused Sally asked why, the Eldest Sis told her his explanation: Black women want an educated man with a job, ambitions, and a powerful aversion to jail time.  To Mike, such expectations were simply too high.

My sis said the look on Sally's face broke her heart.  'Cause Sally asked her, "Does Mike think I don't expect the same things because I'm fat?"

It's a defense mechanism

I mentioned this before with white guys who want to date black women, but are fairly certain it'll be a cold day in hell before a black woman actually agrees to go out with them.  I don't know why it never occurred to me that for many black men who would actually prefer to date and marry black women (of quality, of course), "I would never date a black woman" is also a defense mechanism.  Unlike with white guys who genuinely are uncertain and who are venturing into brand new territory, for some black men it's old hat.  They can see that rejection coming from miles away.

They know that if they are with a black woman of quality and they so much as mention being out of work for some ridiculously extended period, the digits will not be handed over.  The same goes for the "college just wasn't for me" speech, the "I'm broke but have ambitions to be a record producer" speech, and the cliched, euphemism-ridden, "debt to society, error of my ways" speech (the Eldest Sis has a theory that the prison system actually teaches this speech to convicts on their way out of jail.  I think if that's the case, the line was probably intended to help convicts get jobs, not women).

So black women, the next time you're chattin' with a fully grown black man who ain't got a damn thing going on his life, and he dismissively tells you sorry, but he'd never date a black woman...don't be offended.  You have not been insulted.  It is perfectly okay for you to laugh in response.  Laugh loudly and freely.  Let those melodious peals ripple from a deep healthy place.  Let the tears stream down as you double over and rupture a spleen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*At this point my sis figured mentioning the deadbeat convict factor would be somewhat insensitive, in case any of you are wondering why she didn't bring that up.

Comments

  1. Crazy/funny story. Now, here's my question. You didn't address the fact that this dude thinks that a no BW policy makes perfect sense because BW all have similarly high expectations. You seem to agree with that. Is this a cultural thing? I only dated 3 BW when I was single but I can't say I rly noticed many similarities between them.

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  2. @ jas0nburns

    You didn't address the fact that this dude thinks that a no BW policy makes perfect sense because BW all have similarly high expectations. You seem to agree with that. Is this a cultural thing?

    I think you slightly misunderstood. This isn't a culture thing at all. This is a gender thing. The idea is that some men want a quality woman without having to be quality men themselves. Black men who feel this way tend to deflect their own short-comings and claim that even if they flunk out of school, can't keep a job, and/or can't stay out of trouble, it's not because they themselves have a problem, it's because black women have the problem. IOW, they're not underachieving...we're just "over-expecting."

    It's a tactic aimed to get great women to settle for [far] less than great guys. It's by no means exclusive to the black community, of course; just ask any straight/bi woman. It's just that this is how some black men choose to strategize. By saying, "I would never date a black woman", it cuts that woman down to size, puts her on the defensive, and makes her second-guess her own worth. IOW, it puts her "back in her place."

    It's less powerful coming from a white guy because white men aren't most black women's first choice. A white guy says, "I would never date a black woman." The average black woman usually shrugs and replies, "I would never date a white man." She nods in acknowledgment of his racism/cowardice/latent homosexuality, closes the case, and moves on.

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  3. Notice that "Sally" also had the same expectations we uppity Negresses have.

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  4. His reasoning also had a lot to do with her getting over it; the explanation wasn't anything new: black women expect too much, blah blah blah, black woman want you to have a job, blah blah blah, go to school, blah blah blah, be reliable, blah blah blah, be an overall decent human being, blah blah blah - you know...irrational, unreasonable expectations like that.

    You g*ddamn motherfucking right I do! I will be a single woman all the day long for the rest of my life before I settle for a shiftless man (be he black, white, purple or scotch-plaid) who can't bring anything to the table! Fuck that.

    Last I checked, the people who hold my mortgage expect their money every month, which means he needs to pay his way too. Lust may give you a thrill but it damn sure don't pay no bills. So yes, I expect for any man I'm with to be able to hold his own. Queens roll with kings, not jesters or the village idiot.

    And these feelings, as Sally illustrates, are not restricted to sistahs.

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  5. Men who put up shields like that want to deflect their depression or depreciated view of themselves onto women out of past frustrations with the women he's familiar with. Usually, men don't see themselves as the problem, especially in a society build from male privilege. This dude has some internal issues and want to blame black women. It's the same as a white person blaming his problems on POC and not on himself or the society built on white privilege.

    This is going on in other communities, and I think this problem within black communities are unique due to historical events as it is in any male dominated society. I don't know for sure, just speculating.

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  6. @ Blaque Ink

    This dude has some internal issues and want to blame black women. It's the same as a white person blaming his problems on POC and not on himself or the society built on white privilege.

    Very similar indeed. People think the interracial boom is happening now for many different reasons, but they always neglect a very important factor: the social, political, and economic advancement of women.

    There's a reason why men are more likely to be curious about interracial sex than women are. People forget that there was a time when even men didn't want to be bothered with women of another race. But now, they're tripping over themselves to get to the other side because many of them subscribe to the myth that "other women" will be easier to deal with.

    We won't. Every woman who has a sense of self-worth, decency, and dignity has standards. A woman who's in complete control of her sexuality, in particular, will tolerate very little bullshit from a man. Trying to find her in another flavor won't do a man any good.

    @ Amaya

    I will be a single woman all the day long for the rest of my life before I settle for a shiftless man (be he black, white, purple or scotch-plaid) who can't bring anything to the table! Fuck that.

    Last I checked, the people who hold my mortgage expect their money every month, which means he needs to pay his way too...So yes, I expect for any man I'm with to be able to hold his own. Queens roll with kings, not jesters or the village idiot.


    Case in point.

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  7. "This isn't a culture thing at all. This is a gender thing. The idea is that some men want a quality woman without having to be quality men themselves. "

    yes, But in the mind of the guy in the story it's clearly a racial/cultural thing. He has come to the conclusion that WW will let him get away with NOT being a quality man while BW will not.

    I think this is totally ridiculous of course. I'm just wondering why he thinks that.

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  8. @ blaque Ink

    good point. basically he's delusional and instead of dealing with his own shit is looking for outside explanations. I know a lot of people who do this to varying degrees.

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  9. @ jas0nburns


    yes, But in the mind of the guy in the story it's clearly a racial/cultural thing. He has come to the conclusion that WW will let him get away with NOT being a quality man while BW will not.


    Ironically, Jason, you're thinking too much about her skintone. She's not just a white woman, but a 400-pound single mother. In the eyes of many men, she's a woman who was easy to get, and is more likely to be so grateful to even have a man in her life that she'll tolerate his bull. Her whiteness merely serves his mantra of "I would never date a black woman." When Mike finally got out of jail, he voiced his dread about having to go home and sleep with Sally, while she voiced her eagerness to "tap that." My sister was the sounding board for both.

    Had Mike's deflection tactic/defense mechanism been, "I would never date a woman who was under a size 16-18", Sally would've more likely been black or Latina.

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  10. I took note of the weight thing but I didn't want to be the one to open that can of worms.

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  11. @ jas0n

    By all means, feel free. Morbidly obese people experience harrowing discrimination and dehumanization in America. I see no reason why we can't discuss it on this blog.

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  12. Damn sucks for Sally. Yeah, I just laugh at guys like that. It does seem like a preemptive strike on his part. There is no doubt that a woman with her shit together in search of a quality mate would drop him upon further investigation. This is just his way of saving face.

    As far as the severly overweight Sally, well that sucks. As much as it's not PC or kind to say women in that weight range are perceived as having less options and expected to take just about anything to say they 'have a man'.

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  13. "She talked about one of her best buds, a fortysomething black male drummer who really doesn't have his ish together. No steady job and no advanced education, but at least his prison record's intact."

    Oh Lawd Hammercy. =_= Btw, I love Eldest Sis's hair. :)

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  14. @ Moi

    The first thing that struck me about this story is why the hell would any sane man pass up on your big sis for a 400+ pound white girl. That is crazy. I mean, is whiteness seen as THAT much of a prize? I couldn't even begin to understand the mental gymnastics involved with this preference a lot of black men seem to have. But then, some black men i've known seem to genuinely think obese white women are more attractive than BW of a healthy/normal weight. I suppose they are entitled to their opinion or whatever but I just don't get it. And it makes me wonder how much of it is a genuine taste thing and how much is internalized racism. And then there's this added dimension of perceiving BW as being too demanding. It's all kind of insane. But it sounds like Mike is just a loser and maybe i'm reading too much into it/trying to extrapolate to much from the story.

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  15. See I'm with Mike on this one.

    This is the problem with you modern black women.

    Ya'll get yal'll little office jobs, and college degrees and publish books and move up the corporate ladder, suddenly ya'll get all uppity and don't fulfill your womanly duties such as cooking for us, taking care of my other baby mama kids, washing our drawers, buying our liquor, completely financing us (what's this nonsense about me having to have a j-o-b, why can't you just love me for me?), covering our debts at the pool hall, and bailing us out jail, like ya'll are supposed to do.

    *dodges brick and runs away*

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  16. @ RVCBard

    Wrong post, sis. If you want to do a guest post feel free, otherwise stay on topic. If this topic doesn't suit you, then there's always the next one.

    And as for heterosexual convos, I'm a heterosexual woman. You mentioned hearing about people's experiences straight from them, well these are mine. These are my experiences and issues which affect me. If you're bored with this topic (and I can honestly see how you would be), then by all means, email me a guest post on one that's more to your liking.

    @ jas0nburns

    Your whiteness is showing. You're still focusing too much on Sally's skintone, which I believe I addressed with this:

    "Had Mike's deflection tactic/defense mechanism been, 'I would never date a woman who was under a size 16-18', Sally would've more likely been black or Latina."

    Mike didn't ask out my sister because he knew that once she got to know the real him, he'd get dumped. So he pulled a preemptive strike, as someone else here just mentioned.

    Mike wants a black woman, but like most heterosexual black men, he wants a "good" one - mannerly, educated, employed, and preferably without a bunch of kids. He wanted to go out with my sister, but he could see the rejection coming a mile away.

    Sally's whiteness is just there to support his defense mechanism, so that he can attempt to save some face in the situation. He's not attracted to her. He doesn't even like sleeping with her. He's dating her because she's willing to put up bail, put a roof over his head, feed him, pay his bills, and actually be grateful to do it. She didn't have to be white to do so. It just happened to work out that way.

    This is why I suggest focusing more on the issues of weight and gender.

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  17. @ Y

    As far as the severly overweight Sally, well that sucks. As much as it's not PC or kind to say women in that weight range are perceived as having less options and expected to take just about anything to say they 'have a man'.

    Here's what I'm thinking. Should people like Sally see to their health? Yes. Do they deserve the way society treats them? No. They're unhealthy. People need to ask themselves, "Would I be this callous towards a cancer patient?" Odds are, probably not.

    @ Neo-Prodigy

    As usual, darlin', you nailed it.

    @ leoprincess

    Btw, I love Eldest Sis's hair. :)

    *cough*

    Read that like you need to.

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  18. "He's dating her because she's willing to put up bail, put a roof over his head, feed him, pay his bills, and actually be grateful to do it."

    Ah yes. So saying "I don't date black women" wasn't true. What he meant was "i don't date women with standards and a backbone" And on top of that had the nerve to imply to your sis that those are actually negative qualities. Weak.

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  19. Madam, yet again your blog is one of my favorites. This is a subtle woman's issue that doesn't receive a lot of light.

    Lots of men have variations of this defense mechanisms. Any time a fella tells you (or acts as if) he's intimidated by you... high-tail it. You will never know peace if you land in a relationship with one, either.

    This is also why men, when they cheat, tend to cheat "down," I think.

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  20. @ jas0nburns

    Ah yes. So saying "I don't date black women" wasn't true. What he meant was "i don't date women with standards and a backbone" And on top of that had the nerve to imply to your sis that those are actually negative qualities. Weak.

    By George, I think he's got it.

    @ Eva

    This is also why men, when they cheat, tend to cheat "down," I think.

    Amaya wrote a really good post in which she stated:

    A woman I once knew who confronted her husband’s mistress told me later that the woman suffered from a myriad of ailments, both physical and mental, and that she was with her husband “because he was a good man with a strong sense of integrity who took care of her.” Let’s not overlook the fact that the mistress knew he was married with a family. I asked, “Does she realize the fallacy of her thinking?” The woman told me that the mistress had self-esteem issues and that her husband, who suffered from an acute case of Captain Save-A-Ho (and was no longer a hero in his wife’s eyes; just a man), “made everything all right” by being with her.

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  21. "Mike wants a black woman, but like most heterosexual black men, he wants a "good" one - mannerly, educated, employed, and preferably without a bunch of kids. He wanted to go out with my sister, but he could see the rejection coming a mile away."

    You know something crazy? There was a woman I worked with, she was one of my supervisors at the summer youth program, she was a sweet, pretty older lady. She was a little heavy set but hardly in unhealthy weight range. She started dating this guy from a mens shelter(right across the street from where she worked) that had just gotten out of jail.HE moved in with her, she helped him get a job They were engaged and she was really happy.

    Then one day she turns up dead, with 15 stab wounds. It was all over the news. To this day they haven't found him.

    Now maybe she was insecure about her age and the little weight she'd gained or maybe she was genuinely interested in giving the man a second chance. I don't know. Probably a little of both? Still the police speculate that the assault that caused her death wasn't the first time he had gotten violent with her.

    Its just crazy. She had a lot going for her and she thought he was the best she could do?She wasn't even that "fat" she just had wider thighs, hips like a lot of older women. Maybe she was just really lonely? We all get vulnerable from time to time.

    SMH its a damn shame.

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  22. I get that there are gender inequalities especially when it comes to female appearance but I think in regards to overweight people, it often goes both ways.

    If a man isn't balling out of control, and he's overweight but he's got his ish together and isn't shallow, he can have just as hard a time meeting decent women.

    I've been following the trials and tribulations of a friend of mine, who recently got an engagement broken. His ex finance got pregnant by another guy, tried to pawn the kid off on him, and she did for about two years. That was until he went to a basketball game and saw another man cheering for his son in a way that just made him... question if he was the father of the boy. He wasn't and he still loves the kid so he helps out, but he's been to hell and back. But he thinks she's "the best" he could do, so he put up with her, until he couldn't take it anymore.

    Although I will add that many unattractive men feel "entitled" to beautiful women simply for the sake of their beauty. They aren't all that interested in personality, or character.
    They're not often just shallow, they just don't have much of a personality either, even worse they are unaware of this deficit, and then they wonder why all their relationships crap out or go completely shitty over and over again.

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  23. They were engaged and she was really happy.

    Then one day she turns up dead, with 15 stab wounds. It was all over the news. To this day they haven't found him.


    Whaaaaaat...the fuuuuuuck...?????

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  24. It is more about gender misogyny than just about race and I am glad you pointed that out. When men say it's about race it is so much more easier for them.

    You know this reminds me of my friend, she is really pretty and this white guy in our class wanted to date her. Thing is he never showed up in class and smelled of bad weed it was like bad weed that was expired or something lol, he was just one shady guy. So he asks my friend out and she politely declines. Then he starts cussing her and she cusses him back 10x worse where he is just silent. Well the next day I hear him talking to his friend who is black and I sit next to them and the white boy says "you know what, that is why I don't black girls."

    i just started laughing becasue it was the most funniest thing ever and I let him know that no girl with her shit together would want him Black, White or Asian. So funny I still joke about it today.

    So there is an example about when it's more about gender than race.

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  25. @ Ankh

    Yeah. I know. I mean, first she went missing. She didn't show up to work and everyone that knew her thought that was odd. Then her family reported her missing. Meanwhile he's MIA. Then like a month, later they found her somewhere dead with the stab wounds.

    At the time it was just so out shockingly random. I remember her having a conversation with me and my friend about where she was thinking of going on her honeymoon cruise and what she was going to wear to her wedding and everything! I didn't know the man's background at the time, I found this out later. I just knew she seemed really in love with him and happy and everything.

    In the conversation about her wedding dress I remember her talking about how since she had been with him she had been more successful in loosing weight and going to the gym so she could "look sexy for her wedding day." And she had been. One of the last conversations I had with her.

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  26. Sorry sis, remix (trying to get my Ankhesen on and trying to do 30 other things at the same time doesn't work for me)but what I meant to say was that I bet if you that Oprah money..his tune would have changed. Meaning that, there is NO real fundamental difference between you and Sally (I don't date black women?? COP OUT!)but generations of conditioning has put into him that there is and it has enslaved his mind. I feel sorry for him but its not an uncommon case.

    Point blank: both black men and white men alike in America have had this conditioning. One has been taught to be seen as superior and the other inferior.. However, Both BM and WM don't mind buying a BW (no matter how great she is)a one way ticket to nowhere. We can just never be enough and wonder why we have the 'independent woman' attitude.

    It is natural, for ANY female mammal (regardless of species) that has to defend their young, go out and hunt, and take on the role of the male to become hostile towards the male...thats just fucking nature because then the male feels ENTITLED to have the attitude, as if they have the right to be choosy beggars.

    So yeah, this brother gets the 'Negro Please' award of the year..I don't know why but there has been an increase among our men with this 'bossy bitch' attitude. He could have NO ambition about him but there's gotta be something about YOU that screams 'ABOVE AND BEYOND THE AVERAGE NEGRO' to them.

    And the scary part is that our society, music industry ect. PROMOTES this 'Male Queen Bitch' paragon. *smh*

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  27. I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed your post and the dialogue that followed. And of course it's an additional treat because your commentary was laced with the your patented style of humor.

    You eloquently pointed out many truths including the discrimination of the obese. At the end of the day it is about loving yourself first and never,never letting another define you. It is a lesson we must recognize early and teach our children to recognize as they encounter the "Mikes" and "Michelles" of the world. There are a lot of good healthy folks out there to interact with but when an idiot like this one blows your way do not let him or her infect you with their negative energy.

    Race, religion, body type, it doesn't matter the tool they use. Folks like this are trying to defend their inadequacies and needs at the expense of your self-esteem. They are wasting your time and you have possibilities waiting to explore. Kicked em to the curb.

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  28. I vote that we have a "Negro Please" awards every year.

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  29. Yeah the more I think about it the more obvious it is that race is being used as a smokescreen here. Actually this mike fellow reminds me of my dad (who I don't talk to much) He's a chronic underachiever unfortunately and he ended up in a relationship almost exactly like this recently. The thing is that growing up he would always make comments about how unatractive he finds overweight women. But over time as his options dried up that's exactly the type of women he ended up dating. And they did put up with his shit and they did take care of him. It's really degrading for all parties involved.

    So the topic is interesting to me. I don't rly know what makes some men behave this way. I couldn't live with myself.

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  30. There's also an issue here of single motherhood.

    While assessing families for the government, one of first things we were taught was that single mothers are actually targeted by men, particularly if the child/children's father is absent, and the mother is financially stretched thin. To child molesters in particular, a broke single mother is a gold mine.

    None of Mike's children live with him (he's actually a grandfather now), so I'm guessing he's not a particularly stellar dad to Sally's kid.

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  31. @ Ankh - Sorry! XD I've been natural for 1.5 years after over 15 years of relaxers, so seeing black women rocking great big hair is like crack for me.Right up there with books and art supplies.

    But back to this dunderhead and others like him: how many clues are going to have to drop before he realizes that more successful women (of any race) are waking up and developing zero tolerance for crap in potential mates? None of the women I know want to raise a grown child, yet we're the ones with 'issues'. Uh-huh.

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  32. @ Anonymous

    Repost with a name.

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  33. I don't get two things (and I am sorry if they're already mentioned here, I'm in a hurry so I didn't read all the answers, I just want to ask):

    1. You said his prison record was clean... and later that he was in jail. So he committed his first crime after the "I don't want to date black women" speech?

    2. Sally was disappointed to learn he didn't expect her to want him to have a job and be out of jail. But... he was right, wasn't he? Because she did agree to be with him. She did agree to be with such a man. So I don't get why that was such a surprise to her.

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  34. @ Mira

    You said his prison record was clean

    I said "intact." By the time he met my sister, he'd already been to prison. By the time he went back, he'd started seeing Sally.

    She did agree to be with such a man. So I don't get why that was such a surprise to her.

    Denial, most likely. She was just really happy to have a man in her life, and I guess it blinded her to a few issues. And is still blinding her, for as I understand it, she's still with him.

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  35. RE: child molesters targeting single mothers

    My mom taught me that. She would never date a guy that approached her while she was with her kids or showed too much interest in her kids.

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  36. @ modest-goddess

    Thanks for the tip. I've always wondered about the little signs to look for.

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  37. Most of the black guys I've come across with that, "I would never date a Black woman or she has to be REALLY special" rule are the same guys I'd never touch with a 10-foot pole. The kind of guys whose conversations are severely lacking or they don't even know the basic history of the state they were born in. They also tend to be types I'm not attracted to anyway, so I just listen to their hate-filled rants and wonder why they think any Black woman worth anything would want them in the first place.

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  38. I just listen to their hate-filled rants and wonder why they think any Black woman worth anything would want them in the first place.

    Delusion, most likely.

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