Stages of Modern Black Communication - Denial (2)

Sorry, ladies.  You know how I roll.

Much of what I'm about to tell you was gleaned from rants by the infamous lil sis.  Thanks to the little one, I've come to realize some things which answered a few unanswerable questions for me.  Like...why do black women in supposedly happy relationships go off when people discuss the BM/WW trend?  As the lil sis would say....

Candlelight vigil for Danroy Henry
If you still got somethin' to say, you care

Face it, black women: we care.  Where black men are involved, we care.  Some of us haven't even dated a black man in many a moon but when Oscar Grant, Derrick Jones, and Danroy Henry get shot, it's heard 'round our world; it echoes and rattles painfully within us.  When 89 black men are found swinging from trees from 2005 - 2010, and their deaths are immediately ruled as suicides, we suddenly find Billie Holiday resurrected and mourning with us once more.

This is the ancient source of our distrust towards white women (and whites in general); black men have died - and still die - because of their lies, or their parents, or white society overall.  One our of greatest fears whenever we see black men so blindly and eagerly chasing whiteness is that they'll end up on the blogosphere with everybody talking about them in past tense.

However...this genuine, valid fear has a tendency to sprout legs and run away with itself, so that some black women find themselves "caring" about black men with white women for far less noble reasons.

"Is she white?"

The lil sis has had some recent troubles with one of her female peers.  The woman in question, a longtime friend of the lil sis, got herself a man.  Before he started beating and choking her (they're still engaged, by the way), he slept with another girl.  And when she found out, her first question was, "Is she white?"

To which the lil sis promptly replied, "Do we give a fuck?"

Remember when I talked about how a woman struggling with weight isn't really struggling with weight, but something else which causes her to gain it?  Similar issue here.  A black woman in an unsatisfactory relationship with her man doesn't really care about "white girls" (though she doesn't actually realize this, of course).  She's obviously got much bigger problems than "white girls."  She has low-esteem, she's in a relationship headed for nowhere, and she feels like she's drowning. Remember... denial is meant to "protect" the mind from trauma.  By projecting her feelings onto "white girls" and blaming them for her man's misbehavior, a black woman in denial thus finds a way to handle an overwhelming problem.

The Ones Who Couldn't Wait

Black women are desirable and know it.  My second year of grad school, when I was studying the psychology of women under Dr. Wendy Williams, I saw a study which showed that black girls tend to score higher on self-esteem tests than all other women in America.  I recall that I wasn't surprised when I read it; in fact, I didn't even bat an eyelash.  That study was done back in the 1990s, before the rise of online media.  Now we have online media, where we see non-black man after non-black man after non-black man professing his love  and loyalty to a black woman/black women.

Even at the rich and famous level, we learn that actors like Chris Noth and Justin Chambers get paid fat checks to romance white women on-screen, while taking all that money home to their black girlfriends and wives, and their black kids (that, by the way, is "subversive", ladies and gentlemen...since some folks seem to get it twisted).  As mentioned in the previous post, we also see women like the Countess Mary von Habsburg, and let's not forget, Her Royal Highness Princess Angela of Liechtenstein.

And while all that is going on, black women such as myself hear white women - literally every day - talking about wanting our features.  Sometimes even the men do it; I recall speaking out against tanning to some white friends and one guy snapped - literally, snapped - at me, "That's easy for you to say.  You have gorgeous milk chocolate skin all year 'round."

Black women...we know we're desirable.  We know that when we're excluded from mainstream media, it's because simply we're a threat to the white supremacist agenda.  In fact, I've noticed that some black women are so finicky precisely because of this; I've lost track of how many times I either read or heard a black woman irritably state, "Yes, yes, I know I could get me a white man, but I don't want a white man.  I want a black man."

The lil sis says these women - when their 20s start to turn into their 30s - will often give in and hurriedly marry a non-black man.  It doesn't matter if their non-black men respect them and treat them well (heavens forfend!), they are and always will be "the second choice,"  which is why when black women like these see a BM/WW couple, they always has something to say - always.  Even though they've got perfectly good mates - which last I checked, is the whole point of finding a mate - they're still bitching about what's going on in someone else's bedroom.

They wanted a black man (for whatever reason), but they didn't want to stay single either.  And when the pressure to be married overrode the pressure/desire to specifically marry a black man, they chose the lesser of two evils, so to speak.  And for black women who are relationships in with non-black men, and who find that black men neither respect your husbands nor take your relationships seriously, this is why.

Fear of Rejection

Even if you're rejected by someone who's an idiot, or a racist, or a miserable autophobe, rejection still stings; it's just one of the many fun aspects of being human.  Some black women tend to be in denial about the sting, or "the wince", as Jill Scott calls it.  When they see a happy BM/WW couple, they immediately wonder which poor black woman paid the price for their bliss.

Was she devoted to him before he dumped her? they wonder.  Did he leave kids behind?  Does he at least pay child support?  Did he turn abusive near the end of their relationship because he met some blonde and wanted a quick way out?

They let their imaginations run away with them, you see; they put themselves in the shoes of a woman who may or may not even exist.  Her slight becomes their slight, her pain their pain, and within mere seconds, two complete strangers who haven't done anything wrong to anyone (that they know of) suddenly become Public Enemy #1.

And with that, we now conclude the denial stage.  I wonder which stage is next.

Comments

  1. When they see a happy BM/WW couple, they immediately wonder which poor black woman paid the price for their bliss.

    Reminds me of the time there was a Taye Diggs post on a celebrity site, and women were gnashing their teeth that he didn't marry a black woman. I had to add my two cents: "Why the hell do you care so much? Or at all? You think he's lying awake at night thinking about what BW think of his marriage, or his baby? NO! He's living his life the way he wants, and we should be living ours."

    That didn't sit well with some, but I didn't care. They've been grumbling about Taye Diggs for close to a decade and I don't see him divorcing his wife and marrying a BW any time soon. I guess it's their time to waste.

    However, you know when it really got sick? When Tigergate sprung and all his side-hos started crawling out for their 15 mins - and some BW were pissed that they were all white. I remember one line going, "Damn, he couldn't have picked a Sista or something?", and I couldn't let sleeping dogs lie anymore. So I reply: "So...he's never dated one of us publicly, sure as hell never married one of us....but you'd like to have seen him with BW as his side-piece(s)? His human wet towels? Are you serious?"

    It got quiet after that.

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  2. @ leoprincess

    However, you know when it really got sick? When Tigergate sprung and all his side-hos started crawling out for their 15 mins - and some BW were pissed that they were all white.

    For real. What was that about?

    I mean, ewwwwwwwwww. Seriously... Tigergate grossed me out. My one consolation was that none of the women were black. You know mainstream media would've milked the hell out of that one.

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  3. I've STILL got Black women family members (who are married to Black men)trying to convince me to be angry with a Black man who is with a White woman. But once I give them my "if you don't leave me the fuck alone" look, they shut up. But my point is, YES, why do YOU care, when you've been happily married to a Black man for 25+ years?!

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  4. @ Ankh - I breathed a sigh of relief and threw in a 'Hallelujah!' when they all turned out white. No Hugh Grant-with-Black Prostitute flashbacks to be had.

    Very glad Tiger stayed close to the template for that one, but I'm puzzled as to why some BW were disappointed at the lack of colour in his harem. This makes me wonder just how much we've been absorbing all what mainstream media has been putting out, the twice per decade 'Black Women Aren't Getting Married!' agony articles being the tip of it. How desperate for attention do you have to be to want validation from a man who's never acknowledged us, even if that 'validation' is as a mistress?

    Which also leads to another disturbing aspect I've seen on some BWE blogs, where they put famous non-black (almost 99% white) men who've had some sort of relationship with Black Women on pedestals - even when said men have more/less treated said women as dirty secrets.

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  5. Well Tiger is mixed and he probably doesn't identify as black, culturally, ethnically, socially or anything. I've never got that impression from him so I was not surprised at all.

    With Taye Diggs/Idina Menzel most of the hate comes from people that know him as eyecandy and not as a singer/actor that he is. Most of those women don't even know his career that well they just think he's cute.

    He started out in Broadway thats how they met and they've been together for awhiiiiilllee. I think his wife is Jewish? Anyway black/jewish couples are normal in NYC and most Northern Urban cities.Even in my grandmother's day it was common, she almost married a Jewish guy.

    But a lot of southern black women get upset at interracial couples period. That's southern people for you.

    I'm black, but I didn't grow up with a what a lot of people consider "black culture." There are regional differences within the black community. It's not a monolith. I'm from the Northern-Midwest and it's a different culture. Definitely.

    I notice most American blacks that were in Northern cities before the great migration, have totally different accents than other black people. For instance. I could name a dozen other things.

    Ever notice how Tyler Perry never has interracial couples in his plays? Except in that one movie "The Family that Preys" and it was "bad" there. Well that probably has to due with the fact that he's a black Southerner. In my humble.

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  6. When I found out about Tigergate, I didn't really care, and I was glad that those side-hoes were white.

    I may have said this already in another blog, or you may have made a blog about it, but some black people cringe when they see BM/WW and BW/WM relationships because they see them as "sleeping with the enemy". Some blacks see white people as the enemy, and seeing members of their own community with them is like seeing black people lose their pride. To them they are no better than uncle toms.

    Some blacks tend to think of themselves as a monolithic group that should stay with their own if they are to survive and progress in a white supremacist nation. They don't consider themselves as individuals in certain matters, and I believe that is what also happens when some black women see black men with white women.

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  7. The main reason BM want to "diss" BW/non-BW relationships is due to male privilege and a sense of ownership of BW. We're supposed to be their "just in case" pool of perpetually available women. Just in case things don't work out with Becky, Lin Mae, Lupe or Nita, they always got a pool of lonely, desperate BW to choose from. And many of those BW are not scrubs either. If BM end up old, broke and single, they got a decent chance of pulling a sista with an education and decent income from the stable.

    BM have bought into the whole racial gender hierarchy when it comes to how BW are viewed. That's why so many of them are so shocked and get all up in arms when BW they consider to be the least desirable (dark skinned, kinky haired, subSaharan, West African featured) date/marry out. Those BW are supposed to be too ugly for anyone to want especially since BM have deemed them so. The whole rest of the world was supposed to co-sign them on that shit.

    I cannot tell you how many BM have deemed me ugly and then, when I showed up with a non-BM were full of all sorts of "Why, sista, why?!" and all of a sudden I was all sorts of "Nubian queens" who was required to have a "Nubian king" by my side even though none were interested until I got the White Male Seal of Approval. And their egos drove them to believe that I just had to be "settling" for a non-BM. The idea that I could be perfectly happy with my partner was beyond them. They didn't take my partner seriously out of jealousy, over-inflated egos and spite, not because of some racial dating hypocrisy of mine.

    And I'm one of those BW that is not begging BM to "come on home." If what they want is a non-BW then they need to go and get them one. But they just need to leave BW's names out their mouths and basically just forget we exist. And I'm not going to argue with a BM that doesn't prefer BW. All I can do is be happy I'm not with one of them and I encourage other BW to do the same because we cannot control BM any more than they can us. Hell, we've been begging wayward BM to "come on home" for a good 40 years now. How well is that going? BM are dating out now more than ever before. So much for that strategy.

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  8. I must be on a different celeb gossip site becasue when Taye Diggs stated that the reason his show didn't do well is becasue black women boycotted it and everyone was pissed off becasue nobody knew he had a show NOBODY!! Maybe he should have blamed his publicist or his agent or the network for not advertising. Or the shitty plot line. I mean come on you relive the same day every episode to save your wife from dying. That stuff only works on one episode luv.

    Nobody was checking for Taye, his fake arse for damn sure. His other shows got cancelled too Oh and the fact that he obviouslly has issues. Years ago he said that no black girls liked him becasue he was darkskinned and geeky(classic excuse used by Dennis "weirdo" Roddman) , on the Chris Rock show he was talking shit about black women and Chris Rock put his arse in check, nicknaming his son swirl becasue he is the perfect "choclate and vanilla swirl"

    ANd with Tigergate I saw stuuuupiid arse video by stupid arse black men with no sense saying the reason why Tiger didn't cheat on his wife with black women was becasue they had too much drama WTF. WHo is checking for Tiger's ugly mug and his hundred toothed mouth anyway the only thing attractive about him is money? Even on some shows like ET some white woman said something similar. How come asian women were not asked if they care?

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  9. Thats disappointing to hear about BW being mad that Tiger's side-pieces were all white. SMH. As far as I can tell he is only attracted to WW and,frankly, it would be kind of weird if he was "caught red handed" with a BW. The implications of that would be quite maddening actually.

    As far as the article goes, yes a lot of BW do care. However their is a difference between calling out the hypocrisy/stupidity of BM who prefer IR (as Witchsistah alluded to) and some BW just being in denial about their "issues".

    For me, yes I do care when hate crimes, discrimination, ect are perpetuated against BM because those things effect BW/BP too but I couldn't care less about BM dating other women. That has zero to no effect on my life/happiness. Unless one of my (biological) brothers are screwing themselves chasing after non-BW (in which case I would intervene with a quickness) I simply don't care.

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  10. I should clarify I would intervine with my brothers' dating unworthy women of any race, including Black.

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  11. I'm no fan of Taye Diggs either, and the fact that he did say some derogatory things about BW makes me wonder even more WHY some of these same BW give a damn whom this guy marries/procreates with.

    As for some BM making excuses for El Tigre's Monochromatic Mistress Bonanza - you guys have NOTHING better to do with your time, huh? Besides, the ONLY reason Tiger got those women is the same reason why some rappers and ballers end up with a ton of baby mamas - MONEY. Money can make a less than average S.O.B. look like a GQMF instantly.

    Anyway, for me it goes back to the validation issue for some of these women. Their self-esteem has been so battered and tied up with 'I Need To Have A Black Man' that they'll take any sign of acceptance they can get, even when it comes from dogs. So sad.

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  12. Student,

    I think its a little unfair to blanket diss the whole of Southern BW. Its just as varied as Northerners. There's plenty of pockets of mixed race fun down here.

    This post strikes a cord, especially that fear of rejection. Some black women also look at BM/WW couples with the shell shock of having to deal with biased family members. Brothers and cousins can come home with a rainbow of girlfriends without the batting of an eye by family but the females don't get the same treatment. I know a lot of girls who are still up in arms about it.

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  13. And this post is the opposite of the post where you're telling WW we're not jealous of them. Either BW are or we're not. Pick one.

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  14. @ Witchsistah

    Do not misread me. This post is about SOME black women...you know, the ones the rest of us prefer to pretend don't exist.

    And this:

    The main reason BM want to "diss" BW/non-BW relationships is due to male privilege and a sense of ownership of BW. We're supposed to be their "just in case" pool of perpetually available women. Just in case things don't work out with Becky, Lin Mae, Lupe or Nita, they always got a pool of lonely, desperate BW to choose from.

    and the rest of the comment belongs on the Denial (1) post, because it doesn't apply to the scenario I'm explaining here. When black men dismiss (not diss, as in "disrespect") a black woman's relationship with her non-black man, it's usually because she's "outed herself" by going off about BM/WW couples when she's supposed to be in a happy relationship of of her own. Because once she "has something to say" about someone else's relationship (usually complete strangers), she tends to lose credibility.

    Now when black men diss a black woman with a non-black man (or a woman of any skintone), it's pure, unadulterated hatered. She's happy, she's satisfied, and being loved and appreciated by someone who's not them. Which means 1) the lies they tell white, Asian, and Latina women about the undesirability won't get them anywhere, and 2) they have to let go of the Backup Plan Belief.

    Secondly:

    And this post is the opposite of the post where you're telling WW we're not jealous of them. Either BW are or we're not. Pick one.

    Um, excuse you, but I have. Did you read this:

    "Black women are desirable and know it. My second year of grad school, when I was studying the psychology of women under Dr. Wendy Williams, I saw a study which showed that black girls tend to score higher on self-esteem tests than all other women in America."?

    Or this:

    "That study was done back in the 1990s, before the rise of online media. Now we have online media, where we see non-black man after non-black man after non-black man professing his love and loyalty to a black woman/black women."?

    Or how about this:

    "And while all that is going on, black women such as myself hear white women - literally every day - talking about wanting our features."?

    You did read all of that right? It's written in this very post.

    While black men want to pretend that the women I've described above are ALL black woman, black women in turn try to pretend there's NO SUCH black woman. Well, there is. She exists, her thinking is flawed, and black women need to examine the reasoning behind that thinking.

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  15. For me, yes I do care when hate crimes, discrimination, ect are perpetuated against BM because those things effect BW/BP too...I should clarify I would intervine with my brothers' dating unworthy women of any race, including Black.

    Which brings us back to my original point (not made on this post, btw). Black women can ignore black men to a point. When it's another unarmed black man gunned down by some shithead cop, or our siblings, or our sons, we can't really ignore them.

    But back to this:

    I couldn't care less about BM dating other women. That has zero to no effect on my life/happiness.

    Unfortunately, some black women. It's very disturbing, and clearly a sign of unresolved personal issues.

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  16. *pure, unadulterated haterade

    *Unfortunately, some black women do

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  17. When black men dismiss (not diss, as in "disrespect") a black woman's relationship with her non-black man, it's usually because she's "outed herself" by going off about BM/WW couples when she's supposed to be in a happy relationship of of her own. Because once she "has something to say" about someone else's relationship (usually complete strangers), she tends to lose credibility.

    I'm sorry, but this sounds like some pure-d-bull to me. Most BM do not know the dating histories of the random BW they come across to be able to make an accurate assessment. These BM's egos lead them to ASSUME that the sista is "settling" for a non-BM, that what she desires foremost in her heart of hearts is a BM and is mad she can't get one. BM could be the furthest thing from her mind. She could prefer non-BM for all they know.

    I've had my relationships dismissed by BM for that very reason with a whole lot of projection on the part of BM accompanying it. It was like they were just throwing out excuses why I really couldn't be attracted to my partner and MUST prefer them and hoping one of them would stick so that their hope would be truth. It was a really desperate move on their parts. Oh and these were complete strangers who rolled up on me and my date spouting this mess unprovoked and unsolicited.

    Most BW who date non-BM have told me similar stories as well, including having said BM insult their companion who was right next to them. Hell, I've been told that my partner "couldn't handle alla dat" referring to me sexually. That my partner was not as manly as the BM harassing me as well as the assorted accusations of being a race traitor. And these BM never want to talk to the non-Black MALE. They never confront the MAN. No, they try to bully Black WOMEN into submission.

    Sorry, but it seems like you are reaching here.

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  18. And it ought to please you that more and more BW are no longer Jill Scott wincing at BM/non-BW couples. We're too busy doing our own thang. As long as BM/non-BW keep their spoons out of our Kool-Aid there will be peace in the valley.

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  19. **comment moderation**

    Okay, Witchsistah, you're doing that thing again where you're talking about one thing, while I'm talking about another.

    This post is about a particular type of black woman, and apparently you don't want to talk about her. When you do, let me know.

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  20. @ Student of the World:

    "But a lot of southern black women get upset at interracial couples period. That's southern people for you."

    I'm a southern black woman and I do not give a flying fuck about interracial couples. People have a right to be with who they want to be with. There are more important considerations. Don't lump us all into one category, thank you very much.

    In re: Tigergate: I knew from jump that he was going to marry a white woman, so why anyone expected him to deviate from that norm bewilders me. I don't care that all his jump-offs were white. And I certainly don't care that some of them looked a bit transgenderish; no offense to transgendered individuals. As I said earlier, there are far more important considerations in this world than who people are sleeping with. But that's me and my $.02.

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  21. pt.1

    @K. I'm not the least bit surprised about the black women being confident study. Because I'm sorry, generally speaking, black women are on an entirely different level imho. You all are the perfect blend of beauty, power, intelligence. You all are the reason our people has survived and prospered amidst the diversity and oppression.

    Maybe it's because I've had so many phenomenal black women in my life but that's my stance and I'm not apologizing for it.

    That's part of the reason why I'm always amused when some white guys (who may not be familiar without our culture) fall in love with black women and are blown away by the fierceness you all bring. I used to joke to my buddies who dated interacially, "Congratulations player, you just hit the jackpot."

    I mean there's a reason why it took a woman like Iman (you know, one of the baddest chicks on the planet) to capture the heart of David Bowie one of the baddest mofos on Earth.

    And I knew about Justin Chambers, but I didn't know about Chris Noth.

    *Tips hat*

    Mr. Big indeed.


    But on a more serious front, I also co-sign on what Witchsistah is saying because I've seen that crap too often too. Too many pitiful excuse for Negros who don't appreciate our treasures, take em for granted and then get outraged because someone else with a modicum of sense can appreciate what these knuckleheads take for granted.

    However, on the flipside, I gotta be honest. As a black man I've seen this on the flipside too.

    In high school and college, when I dated women, I can't tell you how many times I would talk to sisters and try to romance them and court them. And too often many (not all, not even most obviously) unenlightened sisters would not only turn me down but straight up try to clown and punk me: I'm a nerd, I'm not a baller or a drug dealer, I speak too proper, I'm trying to be a white boy, whatever. I would respect their decision and keep it moving.

    However the second a non-black woman (who was often white) who could appreciate a good man no matter his race expressed interest in me, these same unenlightened sisters couldn't wait to exhale and revoke my Negro card.

    Now if I was rubbing it in their faces or trashing sisters or something like that, that would be one thing. And it wasn't like my love for black women diminished, but I wasn't about to pass up a good partner, no matter what their ethnicity is. Nor should I have to explain myself.

    Now, to be fair, it could be because they've been brainwashed by BET (axis of evil) or their self esteem is so shattered they can't recognize/appreciate a good (black) man when he comes calling, but it would kill me because it was like when they had me, they didn't want me, but when they can't have me, now they're mad.

    continued in next comment

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  22. pt. 2


    In regards to the Tigers of the world, allow me to say this. Ladies, if a man rejects you because you're black, got naptural hair, too thick, whatever, GET DOWN ON BOTH KNEES AND PRAISE WHATEVER DEITY OF YOUR CHOICE FOR DODGING THAT BULLET!!!!!

    He just did you a favor. Better you know now that he's not worthy of you (because trust, he's not worthy of you) now then to get involved with him and find out the hard way later on down the road when you've invested time, energy, emotion and money into the relationship.

    Let me tell you something. I've never met a man, who's that caught up, who's worth having.

    If someone, be it friend, lover, romantic interest, etc. can't appreciate you for being who you are, then they are not worth your time or a single thought.

    For me being gay definitely gave me a new perspective on things. Once upon a time, I used to feel guilty if I was attracted to someone outside of my race and feel like I'm betraying my people. Now, having gone through the crap I've experienced with homophobia, I honestly don't give a frak. I know who I am, I know what I'm about, I'm not going to apologize for it.

    If someone has a problem with who I'm attracted to be it on the grounds of race and/or gender, that's THEIR PROBLEM. Because it sure as hell ain't mine.

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  23. @ Neo-Prodigy

    Well, stated as always.

    I also co-sign on what Witchsistah is saying because I've seen that crap too often too. Too many pitiful excuse for Negros who don't appreciate our treasures, take em for granted and then get outraged because someone else with a modicum of sense can appreciate what these knuckleheads take for granted.

    I co-sign as well, but that discussion belongs on the Denial (1) post.

    And by not making a black woman one of his side-hoes, yes...El Tigre (loving it!) FINALLY did black people a favor. I think we should send him a fruit basket for leaving us outta that mess.

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  24. Another great article, its great to see another side of this phenomenon. Personally, I have yet to come across a black woman (friends, realativesm strangers or otherwise) making a fuss over bm/ww couplings offline. In fact I rarely see anyone bat an eyelash, though on one trip grocery shopping I specifically remember a young caucasian woman being out right rude to a bm/ww couple, and wouldn't even look the couple in the face while checking them out! And thats another thing, as quite as its kept, some white women also take issue with interracial relationships, hell I believe some people male and female from all groups take issue with these relationships. Why people assume it is only black women that feel this way is just baffling to me.

    As far as Taye Diggs, who he blames for his show ending is very telling (and IMO he comes off as one of those "I have issues with women of my own group" type of men). What he refuses to come to terms with is that his show just wasn't very good. On Tiger, I don't understand why it was so surprising that all of the women he had affairs with were caucasian, I mean has he ever even dated a black women? Hell an asian women for that matter? What I found most disturbing was the way he so easily disregared his wife and family time and time again with those trashy ass women. Hell he did not even give a thought to the idea that he could have possibily brought AIDS or some other std home to his wife, YUCK!

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  25. By the way, is it just me, or did white folks throw those women under the bus? All of Tiger's neighbors said the same thing when Tiger got busted: they didn't give a fuck, and it was nobody's damn business.

    And when he threatened to leave golf indefinitely, whooooooo Lawd....he shut down all that smack talk prontito.

    *shakes head*

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  26. Neo said:"However the second a non-black woman (who was often white) who could appreciate a good man no matter his race expressed interest in me, these same unenlightened sisters couldn't wait to exhale and revoke my Negro card."


    @Neo: Yea I don't get that either, if they acted uninterested before, they shouldn't have had a damn thing to say.

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  27. they shouldn't have had a damn thing to say.

    The point of this post exactly. *nods*

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  28. @Student of the World
    But a lot of southern black women get upset at interracial couples period. That's southern people for you.

    Just because you're a different "Black," doesn't mean you get a pass for making blanket generalizations.

    I'm Black, Southern and female and I'd like to see the evidence that supports this flawed hypothesis because I was born and raised in the Heart of Dixie. Thus, if you're going to sprout complete and utter bullshit, you need to back it up with facts because your opinion ain't good enough.

    I commend Tyler Perry for promoting Black-Black couples and I hope he continues along this path.

    Tiger? Taye? Damn... I just wasted time thinking of them long enough to type their names.

    A bit more time is needed to reflect on the actual important part of this post.

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  29. I agree with whomever it was that said things like lynchings that are ruled as suicides and unarmed black men being shot impacts the black people as a whole. That is very true.

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  30. Its not always jealousy at times, but sometimes it makes some black women feel possibly betrayed. Whether they are in a relationship or not, most will comment b/c it stings in some way of betray. This could be something taught about since slavery or family teachings. I see a black man and a white woman I could careless, but my sister would have to comment in some way, despite being in her own happy relationship. I think someone has already said that people will always find something to say, but it shouldn't matter.

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  31. @ Amaya & Maverick Goddess
    I think you read ALL where I said "A LOT"

    But a lot of southern black women get upset at interracial couples period

    The "alot" didn't apply to you. Sorry if I gave that impression.

    It just struck me as funny that Tyler Perry never has interracial couples in his plays and movies except "The Family that Prays" and most of his characters are southern blacks like Medea( "I'm from geergia.")

    Perry's popularity is largely within the churchgoing older black female community, they're his prime demographic, so I always thought that his plays catered to/reflected the attitudes of the people he was marketing to/writing for. I'm doing a project on this very thing right now so that's why that jumped to mind.

    And I realize that many southerners don't give two shits about interracial relationships or Tyler Perry, I'm only talking about the ones that do here.

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  32. I thought and I think many other people did, that Tiger was lame. He could get any he wants from the most beautiful women he can afford. And those women we all he wanted? They were all basically blonde bimbos. Ookay... whatever floats your boat.

    I remember reading on one blog a comment someone made, and it was a guy saying something to the effect of:
    "Man if was Tiger I would have midgets, an old Asian lady with no teeth and everythang in between on my menu."

    Or something like that. I just thought that was funny. But that whole thing just made him look lame...especially when he got his ass whooped.

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  33. This combines my reactions thus far to both parts of this discussion.

    Ookay... whatever floats your boat.

    That's pretty much my whole opinion on the matter. What strikes me as a little "Hrm, that's weird. :/ " is when some people need to make a fucking announcement that they won't date/fuck/marry someone of whatever race. I don't mean my friends with whom I'm having a private conversation. I'm talking about people who need to broadcast that shit in public like a tornado warning or something. When someone suddenly goes, "I don't date Black women for Reasons XYZ," I pretty much think, "Aaaaaaand? Why the fuck you need to tell me that?"

    As far as how Black women respond to shit, my experience has been that some of these women get all shocked and offended because I don't have an opinion about it. That's right. I get more flak for keeping my mouth shut and minding my own business than I do for speculating about people I don't know. Can you imagine that shit?

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  34. I'm Black, Southern and female and I'd like to see the evidence that supports this flawed hypothesis because I was born and raised in the Heart of Dixie. Thus, if you're going to sprout complete and utter bullshit, you need to back it up with facts because your opinion ain't good enough.

    Well to begin with Illnois repealed its anti miscegenation law in 1874, Michigan in 1883,Wisconsin and Minnesota never had anti-miscegenation laws. I think Indiana was the last northern-mid western state to repeal it's anti-miscegenation laws.

    That doesn't necessarily mean that interracial marriage was socially accepted or all that common everywhere in the Northern Midwest(especially southern Illinois & Indiana), but it was at least legal in the Northern Midwest way before than it was in most Southern States. According to my grandmother interracial cohabitation/marriage/babies were common, even with race riots/ethinic tensions on Chicago's south side. One of her sisters married an Italian/Portuguese man.

    The first settler of Chicago, my hometown, Jean Baptiste Point Du Sable was a Afro/European fur trader married to a French and Indian woman. Most of the black community settled in Chicago before the great migration is of Indian/Euro/African descent.

    Even though historically nation wide rates of intermarriage were low they have been higher in states that voluntarily repealed their miscegenation laws or never had them. This is probably due to different regional attitudes/laws regarding blacks/native americans/asians.

    Just because you're a different "Black," doesn't mean you get a pass for making blanket generalizations.
    It's not a blanket generalization, the history/culture of the Northern Midwestern Black people is not the same as that of Southern Black people, especially in regard to attitudes toward interracial relationships. Probably due to regional differences so obvious I don't even think I need to point them out.

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  35. @RVCBard

    Oh yes the excuses really grates on my nerves, there was a boy in my ckass who told me why he didn't date black girls. (He was awkward and still i, funny thing I haven't seen him with any woman on his arm he constantly follows white and asian girls around with a big notepad asking them for their number and facebook etc.) I wanted to know why he was talking to me in the first place but whatever.

    Yeah and all those internet bull shit , who are they explaining themselves too. why are you trying to justify your shit.

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  36. I commend Tyler Perry for promoting Black-Black couples and I hope he continues along this path.
    So do I. But I hope that in the near future he does it with better writing than on display in his current formulaic modern day minstrelsy chitlin circuit plays.

    Hopefully his writing will expand beyond promoting stereotypes of black people, we don't need more of them, especially from our own people. I'm glad to see him giving black actors work and exposure but he doesn't have to demean
    them while he does it. I could understand him doing it to get where he's at. But now that he has clout, he can move beyond that.

    I think it's telling that in his one representation of an interracial couple, they are both degenerate loathsome people. The black woman, Sanaa Lathan is a ball busting black man emasculating sapphire stereotype. Domineering her education and better income over her blue collar husband. She openly flaunts her affair with her white boss, who she is presumably attracted to because of his wealth and status, not because of his character.

    Tyler even writes her getting slapped by her husband in a positive light! It's the climax of the movie. All educated black women in his plays/movies are never "good" characters. They are always grasping,greedy,evil bitches. With a few exceptions, the educated black men are the same way. So he's promoting the idea that education on makes black people "bad". Not to mention misogyny, no doubt due to his own *ahem* tacit sexual preferences.

    And again his primary demographic/characters/marketing niche is Southern blacks. That is what they pay to see.

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  37. I hate Tyler Perry movies with a burnning passion. He is not a good storyteller. The only one that was okay was Diary of a Mad Black woman and then I heard that he didn't even direct that.

    I think he should help other aspiring directors now since he is in a high position but his ego won't allow it For coloured girls was supposed to be directed by a woman. A black woman who has directed music video and that movie was going to be her big break, but Tyler Perry took over and made her a producer or sometyhing like that.

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  38. By the way, is it just me, or did white folks throw those women under the bus?

    @ Ankh - Even with putting the race aspect aside, I'm pretty sure most white folks thought those women were trash. Uppity trash too boot. Remember when a couple of them were bleating about 'how Tiger owes them an apology'? I'm sorry - did you NOT know this guy was a married man? Oh, you did know? NEXT!

    Back on topic, it (to me) also goes back to this weird sense of 'ownership' that both (some) BM and BW think that they have over each other. So when either set sees BM or BW with non-Black partners, they take an "HOW DARE YOU CROSS ME?!" attitude, even if said BM or BW is a complete and unrelated stranger. Weird, I know.

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  39. Remember when a couple of them were bleating about 'how Tiger owes them an apology'?

    Or about how he owed them jewelry? *shakes head*

    Back on topic, it (to me) also goes back to this weird sense of 'ownership' that both (some) BM and BW think that they have over each other.

    Oooooooh, I like this. Granted, this tendency is apparent in every ethnic group, but some BP really seem to lay it on thick.

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  40. @Student of the World

    You wrote: "
    "But a lot of southern black women get upset at interracial couples period. That's southern people for you."

    This is a blanket generalization about southern Black women and their feelings regarding interracial relationship. It's all good that you provided us with FACTS about anti-miscengenation laws and MARRIAGE in your region of the country; however, these facts still do not support your claim in regards to Southern Black women and their feeling about interracial relationships. I await these facts.

    If you want to take on Tyler Perry and his alleged evil Southerness, then you need to start writing, producing, directing, and distributing your own films to get your version of reality out there.

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  41. And with that...here endeth the Southern Wars.

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  42. @Leoprincess and Ankhesen

    Back on topic, it (to me) also goes back to this weird sense of 'ownership' that both (some) BM and BW think that they have over each other.

    Oooooooh, I like this. Granted, this tendency is apparent in every ethnic group, but some BP really seem to lay it on thick.


    This is a topic worthy of further research. Having lived abroad for so long in various countries, my first instinct is to disagree that some Black people lay it on thicker than those in other ethnic groups. An investigation would probably reveal that others display their disdain either differently or only within certain environments because they don't have the social freedom to show their asses publicly.

    In North American, the Black population is under constant assault in the form of stereotypes and generalizations. The more our numbers decline and the more we get pushed into a corner, the more "desperate" we'll probably appear even if only ONE of us is being aggressive. Furthermore, we're always in the position of having to DEFEND what little we have.

    Though I am a product of an interracial marriage (Black and Red) and in an interracial marriage (or not, if Red is actually Yellow), I still get pissed when I see a Black man running around with a barefoot, stringy-haired white chick who doesn't bathe daily. Please understand. If it was just a matter of him liking stanky pussy, then more power to him. I wouldn't care at all. My anger would originate from him VERBALLY proclaiming that she is better than the average Black woman any day of the week. Therefore, my reaction would depend on the Black man not only making a personal choice, but also using that relationship to debase Black women or Black people in general. If he does, then I'd be all over his ass like black on a kettle.

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  43. "If you want to take on Tyler Perry and his alleged evil Southerness, then you need to start writing, producing, directing, and distributing your own films to get your version of reality out there."

    But as I'm sure you're well aware of, not everyone has the talent or inclination to be an artist; and even if they did, doesn't mean that they have the resources, access, or a platform on which to be a writer/producer/director etc.

    "If you don't like it, go write your own novel, shoot your own film, draw your own comic, program your own game" usually translates into: 'shut up and stop critiquing what *I* like/don't have a problem with'.

    But even an 'ordinary' person sitting in their living room has the right to give a critique, and I agree with much of what Student of the World says about his films. It's not as if she said: "he sucks" and left it at that. She actually identified some of the problems with his work.

    I'm not a writer or director but I don't NEED to be in order to see that the guy has some serious issues with how he portrays black women (esp. if they're educated) not to mention that race aside, he's a clumsy, piss-poor story-teller that trades in hackneyed plot and tired racial and gender stereotypes. The fact that he's black, uses a black cast, or features "black-black" 'relationships' *doesn't* allay his ineptitude. Nor does it make him immune to criticism or above reproach. All artists are accountable for the work that they put out.

    You applaud him for black-black relationships. I think that's LCD (lowest common denominator) rather than the end destination for black cinema, because I also expect to see something thoughtful, engaging and nuanced, even if it's popular entertainment. I'm long past the point where sticking a collective of black people up on a screen is going to satisfy me, induce 'gratitude' or get me to trot out a resigned: "Oh well. At least he shows black people in relationships."

    No. Not good enough. Black dross, is still dross to me.

    In the meantime, there are talented black men and women the world over who are busting their asses to create 'their version of reality' and *trying* to get their work seen (and many of them aren't from the US). I'm sure there are some amazing films waiting to be made or in the process of being made so that's where I'll invest my hopes and interests.

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  44. leoprincess wrote:
    "Back on topic, it (to me) also goes back to this weird sense of 'ownership' that both (some) BM and BW think that they have over each other. So when either set sees BM or BW with non-Black partners, they take an "HOW DARE YOU CROSS ME?!" attitude, even if said BM or BW is a complete and unrelated stranger. Weird, I know."

    I've heard about it and only occasionally experienced it myself and I like the fact that you qualify your observation with *some*, because this was precisely what was missing during the whole ridiculous furore over Tiger Woods. I have NO doubt that this possessiveness exists.

    However, because I've lived in predominantly white, asian, or increasingly multi-cultural societies I've seen an incredibly proprietorial attitude between men and women across a number of races and ethnicities. So much so, that I very much doubt that black people have the market cornered in terms of policing and judging each others choices, or feeling as if we 'own' one another.

    I think the real difference is in how it is expressed and in the willingness to openly acknowledge that it exists in the first place, to name it and most critically, to discuss it publicly. And when you consider how many groups expressly disdain, disapprove of, and pressure 'their own' out of inter-racial relationships - when they don't outright forbid it, it's interesting to me that black people are often framed as 'laying it on thick' or having a unique aversion to inter-racial relationships compared to other groups, which is just not true - particularly amongst disaporic blacks who are the least likely to fretting about 'gene pools' or worry about mixing while it's other groups from whites to other POCs who expressly don't want us in their mix or whatever. *eyeroll*

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  45. @Ankhesen,

    As much as it kills me to hold my tongue, I won't blatantly ignore the warning you posted here in this very blog (yours).

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  46. You're a good woman, Hateya.

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  47. In the meantime, there are talented black men and women the world over who are busting their asses to create 'their version of reality' and *trying* to get their work seen (and many of them aren't from the US). I'm sure there are some amazing films waiting to be made or in the process of being made so that's where I'll invest my hopes and interests.

    :D

    (note: I sent you another message via LJ).

    BTW, for all the peeps who think I'm just a mad, bitter Black woman with an attitude, Anne Hathaway thinks I'm sweet and lovely.

    A rich and famous White person said it, so you know it's true.

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  48. *is tickles to death at RVCBard* You need to put that on a business card.

    @ nykinora - True, I have no doubt at all that possessiveness is a trait among all the peoples on this planet. Since Ankh framed her topic around BM and BW for her series, I decided to keep my observation within that context. Lord knows that there are plenty of White Supremacist groups and websites denouncing inter-racial 'race traitors' for me to think that Black People cornered the Laying It On Thick market. :D But, for the purpose of this discussion, I'm just focusing on this problem within some Black communities.

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  49. RVC Bard - got your PM last night. :)

    Hateya?
    We just happen to disagree about the value of Tyler Perry films, but then I'll be honest. I'm not from the US or from the South so I'm always aware hell of a lot of significant subtext that I miss. A

    I definitely don't disagree with everything you said and you certainly have every right to balk and protest against blanket statements about Southern blacks bearing a special enmity towards interracial relationships. What annoyed me so badly about Tiger-gate was that all of the US's anxiety about BM/WM relationships, or in Tiger's case 'encounters', was conveniently pinned by MSM on supposedly "angry" black women in yet another round of pin the tail on the donkey. Because you know, everybody other group in US is the picture of urban sophistication when it comes to interracial relationships or is urbanely post-racial or whatever. It's only black women who have this irrational, festering rage at BM/WM couples. Right...

    There was no acknowledgement of how many of us were truly indifferent and downright *bored* by the excessive coverage. I live in NZ and even I couldn't escape the non-stop rubbish. Grrr.

    leoprincess. You're probably doing it the right way. Ankhesen is probably just being polite about my tangential tendencies. I know that we're studying the tendency amongst black people. I bought up the comparison to other groups though, not to 'defend' the tendency or give it a pass but to question if we do it more, or in a more pronounced, extreme way than any other group. (My suspicion is that we don't.)

    But you'll get no argument from me that the tendency amongst disaporic and African blacks to be possessive and to police/regulate each other, does exist and need to be talked about.

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  50. "My anger would originate from him VERBALLY proclaiming that she is better than the average Black woman any day of the week."

    Applause

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  51. "My anger would originate from him VERBALLY proclaiming that she is better than the average Black woman any day of the week."

    I wouldn't pay him enough mind to even really give that much of a damn.

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  52. "My anger would originate from him VERBALLY proclaiming that she is better than the average Black woman any day of the week."

    Ah, yes. The "I'm with a White Woman because Black Women are -X, Y, Z" argument.

    We need to start ignoring those idiots. It's just raising our blood pressure and giving them attention. You know how they say to ignore a child throwing a tantrum? ;)

    However, feel free to rip the gloves off if (and only if)they become physically aggressive. We still have a right to defend ourselves from physical assault.

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  53. I wouldn't pay him enough mind to even really give that much of a damn.

    Thank you.

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  54. @Nykinora

    Before reading this series of posts, I did not realize the full extent of Tiger-gate. I was mercifully spared because only Tiger's celebrity status made him worthy of conversation here. Now upon reflection and re-reading, I can't imagine the horror of turning on the television and watching them parade around so many pissed off Black women.

    ...about Southern blacks bearing a special enmity towards interracial relationships.

    I only care about Tyler Perry insofar as he's directly linked to the unproven allegations that target Southerners, specifically Southern Black women. As far as I was concerned, he was merely a tangent not the actual topic; thus, I was completely taken aback by your post. I do; however, realize that your arguments speak to much larger issues.

    My screenwriter/producer of choice is a Black woman named Mildred Lewis. After Ankhesen introduced me to one of her films, I practically hunted her down to extend my gratitude. Her current screenplay-in-progress is so fantastic, I fully intend to invest financially into this project even if it means I have to teach English in order to do so. Whether or not I have discernible talent, she has inspired me to write novels and screenplays.

    @Aiyo

    *fist bump*

    @Student...
    I wouldn't pay him enough mind to even really give that much of a damn.

    When I was younger, I'm sure I felt this way about many things. I'm older, free and independent now and my priorities have changed. Even in the dwindling days of 2010, it's painfully clear that if people like me don't step up to defend and protect the young Black women in our sphere, nobody else will. Therefore, if I witness this particular atrocity, I will do my damnedest to take him out. I've drawn the line. If a BM engages in a overt campaign to CRUSH the spirits of young Black women who are still struggling with self-identity, self-esteem and self-respect, then he'll have to do it by coming THROUGH me.

    I'm off until 2011. Happy New Year everyone.

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  55. when I see a Black man running around with a barefoot, stringy-haired white chick who doesn't bathe daily.
    I would assume that the poor fellow was deluded/stupid both of which I regard as handicaps. So while I might feel the urge to correct him there are things that a much more damaging to young black women, like poverty/substandard housing/educational institutional racism (all things that I am currently dealing with) that are worth my attention/anger. I see people like this hypothetical man daily in Buffalo, NY so I cosign with you but, he's not worth the thought.

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  56. @Student of the world,
    I see people like this hypothetical man daily in Buffalo, NY so I cosign with you but, he's not worth the thought.

    I understand your concerns because I came into this world with those strikes against me and many more. Regardless of how easy it would be to ignore him, failing to protect the spiritual dignity of the Black women in my sphere (including my daughter and a younger sister half my age), would personally make me a person unworthy of the standards that I've set for myself because an assault on a Black woman's dignity, in whatever form it takes, is an assault.

    New Year's Eve sneaked up on me.

    Happy New Year!
    あけましておめでとうございます!
    新年快樂!

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  57. le chinois...le francais...alors, qu'est-ce que ce pas ici? et Madamoiselle La Belle, L'Ankh-Le Bijou D'Afrique: qu'est-ce-que cela veut dire faire 'Commentary', 'Search', 'Family', etc...en francais?

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  58. Still the 31st over here, but here's to the New Year and all that it brings...

    Mildred Lewis? Well, *surprise, surprise* I've never heard of her but I'm going to check out her work while I look up Wanuri Kahui's work.

    All the best with your writing, Hateya.

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  59. @ randy

    Je suis camerounaise. Au Cameroun, nous parlons francais et anglais.

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