Adventures of "Dude", Pt. 3

And so it continues...again...


7:55:19 PM Dude: They are not even remotely the same in net result.

7:55:49 PM GIRL: it is counter-productive

7:55:59 PM GIRL: very much so

7:56:09 PM Dude: Yeah, but for the black people themselves, not for the white people.

7:56:22 PM GIRL: if you have white peope who refuse to work around blacks b/c of it

7:56:25 PM GIRL: that hurts that

7:56:27 PM GIRL: *them

7:56:36 PM Dude: again, who are the victims in that situation?

7:56:43 PM GIRL: b/c hell, i've had to apologize a number of times for being white

7:56:47 PM GIRL: and i'm pretty sick of it

7:56:50 PM Dude: Aha!

7:57:03 PM Dude: First of all, never apologize for that.

7:57:11 PM Dude: Secondly, the Alcoff article addresses that exact thing

7:57:16 PM GIRL: also


7:57:20 PM GIRL: the victims are hurting themselves

7:57:36 PM Dude: Right, so can you see how the two do not have the same results?

7:57:45 PM GIRL: you can't blame whites for going into a historically black neighborhood and leaving when they're insulted

7:58:01 PM Dude: White racism hurts people of color in many major ways. POC racism (which is an oxymoron, but whatever) hurts people of color in many ways.

7:58:05 PM Dude: Who is the victim in both cases? heh

7:58:13 PM Dude: There is no proportionate relationship.

7:58:30 PM Dude: But again, again again...

7:58:36 PM Dude: POC "racism" is reactionary


7:58:43 PM GIRL: again, it's hard for me to sympathize with people who act as a detriment to themselves

7:58:58 PM Dude: They're acting the only way they know how, based on what they've experienced.

7:59:18 PM Dude: do you figure that if in any given person's history...

7:59:34 PM Dude: if white people have represented, either directly or institutionally, a threat or an obstacle to their well-being...

7:59:48 PM Dude: That their interactions with one well-meaning and pro-active white person can or should undo all of that?

8:00:21 PM GIRL: it can't


8:00:27 PM GIRL: but it creates more racism

8:00:34 PM Dude: Nah.

8:00:45 PM Dude: It only gives license for people to exercise the racism they already had.

8:01:07 PM GIRL: nope


8:01:17 PM GIRL: i'm going all off personal experience

8:01:17 PM Dude: that….wasn't opinion, heh.


8:01:40 PM GIRL: i'm very much the opposite of racist

8:01:45 PM Dude: Heh.

8:01:57 PM Dude: You figure that you hold absolutely no racist views whatsoever?

8:02:11 PM GIRL: they're reactionary

8:02:17 PM Dude: Then they were there to begin with

8:02:23 PM Dude: because what you're reacting to has nothing to do with them being black.

8:02:23 PM GIRL: if they were

8:02:27 PM GIRL: they were dormant

8:02:30 PM Dude: Sure

8:02:35 PM Dude: And they are for a lot of people

8:02:38 PM Dude: which is part of the problem

8:02:45 PM Dude: because they operate subversively,that is unconsciously

8:02:49 PM GIRL: and i was very unaware of them unitl people began to point out my whiteness

8:02:53 PM GIRL: rather

8:02:55 PM GIRL: than i'm white

8:03:03 PM GIRL: and have no business helping blacks

8:03:04 PM Dude: and they're also why people have such a hard time starting the ialogue

8:03:11 PM Dude: dialogue, too

8:03:17 PM Dude: because the shit is painful

8:03:25 PM Dude: In many ways I do not envy white people's position

8:03:46 PM Dude: It is incredibly difficult, psychically, to own up to uncomfortable and deeply buried feelings

8:03:56 PM Dude: or institutions that are based on things that you did not consciously do

8:03:59 PM GIRL: that's not really the issue

8:04:06 PM Dude: I'm just saying that in general

8:04:24 PM Dude: It is the issue, maybe not for you (though I think it must be on some level)

8:05:10 PM GIRL: i stopped feeling bad about what happened with colored people in this country some time ago

8:05:13 PM Dude: To whatever extent that you're connecting their resistance to you, or even animosity towards you, with their blackness, then it is racist

8:05:29 PM GIRL: too, after i found out my ancestors were absent for the majority of it

8:05:37 PM Dude: Because all of that stuff has nothing to do with blackness, but with whiteness

8:05:51 PM Dude: whiteness is the enemy of people of color and of all the people enrolled in it, in spite of their benefits gained from it

8:06:07 PM GIRL: i'm in the business of helping people

8:06:14 PM Dude: Whether or not your ancestors ran from Jim Brown through white civil rights activists...

8:06:17 PM GIRL: not blacks, whites, french, or kenyan

8:06:33 PM Dude: It is still required that you own up to white privilege and what means in your re lationship to people of color.

8:07:31 PM GIRL: (as interesting as this is, i would like to bring it to a temporary close for dinnertime)

8:07:55 PM Dude: Next time you're back at the computer, take a look at this: very short, not as dense as the Alcoff article

8:07:57 PM Dude: baby steps I suppose

8:08:01 PM Dude: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

8:08:04 PM GIRL: that would be helpful

8:08:09 PM GIRL: i hope i haven't offended

8:08:22 PM Dude: Nah, I'm quite used to these kinds of conversations

8:08:36 PM Dude: I understand where people disconnect from the CRT dialogue, and know how to fill in the gaps, for the most part

8:08:49 PM GIRL: b/c when it comes down to it, i put precious little emphasis on race

8:09:03 PM Dude: So one question for you to walk away for now considering...

8:09:07 PM Dude: what you just said there...

8:09:08 PM GIRL: and feel the more everyone thinks about it, the worse off we all are

8:09:24 PM Dude: The mere ability to "put precious little emphasis on race"

8:09:27 PM Dude: is a dimension of white privilege.

8:09:37 PM GIRL: maybe yes, maybe not

8:09:40 PM Dude: No, definitely, heh.

8:09:46 PM GIRL: some of my black friends agree with me

8:09:47 PM Dude: because race does not affect you the way it does POCs

8:09:49 PM Dude: they're just ignorant.

8:10:04 PM Dude: or if not ignorant, unwlling to deal with the weight of this thing.

8:10:18 PM Dude: and another thing - what they say to you may not be the asme as what they say to each other.

8:10:22 PM GIRL: or they're happy with their lot in life, their careers, and their firneds

8:10:41 PM Dude: We do a lot of compromising in our dealings with white people, because it's easier that way; we can't go talking about whiteness at every juncture

8:11:06 PM Dude: but believe that your black friend #1 and black friend #2 have different conversations about race with eachother

8:11:08 PM Dude: than they do with you

8:11:26 PM Dude: If they have any awareness whatsoever.
8:11:37 PM GIRL: i'm going to ask

8:11:39 PM GIRL: but after i eat

8:11:40 PM GIRL: brb

8:11:42 PM Dude: ok

~ fin ~

Comments

  1. or they're happy with their lot in life, their careers, and their firneds

    That takes the cake. :/ *projectile vomit in a lawn sprinkler fashion*

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  2. Dear Dude,

    Move on. Seriously. I see nothing but migraines in your future with this one.

    Signed,
    Leo Princess

    ReplyDelete
  3. She says that some of her black friends agree with her. I wonder what her other friends have said and why she's chosen not to reflect on it. I wish dude had asked her that question.

    Honestly, I think these black people in her life, if they aren't mere aquaintances, probably know that she just doesn't give a shit. And she doesn't want to. They (whites) just enter into these conversations to have their valuse reaffirmed by not listening to anything being said.

    I also think there are whites who start these conversations just so they have an excuse to legitmately air their racist views. Totally self-serving and just another example of why POC can't teach people who have no desire to learn.

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  4. Alright Girl did the standard "I don't think about race and I think everyone should stop talking about it so the problem can go away." Yeah because not talking about problems makes them magically dissappear and makes everything just peachy!

    Then she brings out the native informant. "My black friends agree with me." So? My black friends agree with me too.

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  5. Well someone's not getting a second date with "Dude"! (And how sad for her--he seems like a catch!)

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  6. this right here disproves the "tone" argument cause all the patient kind hand holding in the world isn't enough to make this chick get it

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  7. and I'm convinced that half the people who "have black friends" are referring to someone who is not in a position to criticize them (employee or in law) or someone who just kept a neutral expression and didn't call them on their BS

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  8. So either dude is exceptionally patient and kind, or old girl is SMOKIN hot!

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  9. @ jas0n

    He was being quite patient. Apparently there was nothing special about her physically, and he's decided not to see her again after this.

    During the date, she simply appeared to be smarter than she really was.

    ReplyDelete
  10. @ K

    haha! well I have my own theory about this actually, And I have a feeling you could corroborate.

    It seems to me that otherwise reasonably intelligent white people have like a dead zone in the brain when it comes to racism. Like an underdeveloped area. You could be chatting away with someone who seems to be at or around the same level as you intellectually and then the subject of race comes up and boom, all the sudden it's like you're talking to a spoiled child. (refer to my babyish ramblings on SWPD)

    It's no surprise really as we're taught to avoid the topic altogether and not even think about it. After all whats the point? Anything we say will be seen as "racist" anyway. (poutface)

    In fact we're taught that avoiding it is the right and moral thing to do. Which is why "girl" said things like "oh i don't even think about race anyway" or "it's not important." See we like to throw those out for good measure when talking to POC so they know we're not all hung up on race or anything. (like in a bad way). Funny then that all it does is remind POC of our luxurious ignorance and betray the fact that we don't really give a shit in the first place. Whoops!

    In all seriousness though "DUDE" gave an exceptional, succinct, and totally undeserved breakdown.

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  11. This

    is

    painful.

    EVERYTHING she said was overflowing with white denial like wastes coming out of a sewer drain. Her responses are so fucking typical it's outrageous!

    Dude, brother, man, if you read this, with all due respect, please cut her off. She will not comprehend in the slightest what you're trying to tell her because she doesn't want to. She has proven in her small number of words that she doesn't care about what you have to say about racism. She is not worthy of yours or anyone else's time who disagrees with her. She may think Sarah Palin is a great woman, and that Fox News is fair and balanced!

    Okay, I'm going to blow my brains out now. Well, not really.

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  12. 8:09:46 PM GIRL: some of my black friends agree with me

    *twitch*

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  13. Ankh,

    Well, I'm happy that Dude decided that she was not the one. She probably chalked up his dumping her as yet another mean darkie being racist towards her.

    Why was she even considering dating him? Probably to use as a protest sign or some show that she's "progressive." "See, I can't be racist. I even let this colored* boy's dick in my sacred White snatch!"















    *And unless that heffa is 110 years ol AND senile, her ass using the term "colored" in 2010 is deserving of an ass whuppin.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I wonder what her other friends have said and why she's chosen not to reflect on it. I wish dude had asked her that question.

    Oh...so do I. "Some" is a telling word indeed.

    Funny then that all it does is remind POC of our luxurious ignorance and betray the fact that we don't really give a shit in the first place. Whoops!

    Bingo!!!!

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  15. Ohmygod! Ohmygod!

    I got RACIST BINGO!!!!

    *stands up and does a dance (since that's what Black people do)*

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  16. @ rvc

    from what?

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  17. @ rvc

    Oh you mean all 5 in a row. damn.

    ReplyDelete
  18. hmmm I think Dude had alot of patience many of us have learned through time and experience is pointless. I don't even like to waste my time trying to explain what people don't want to hear I would just be preaching to the choir just like he was because I see a lot of "Amens" coming from the comments. *giggle* I do appreciate the fact that he tried anyway (every once in awhile I have to have this convo with other POC sad but true)at the very least maybe someone curious for some truth happened upon this blog and became enlightened even if only a little bit. (that is my hope)btw going to blog soon myself this seems pretty interesting

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  19. Thanks for posting the conversation, Dude and Ankh.

    I'm white and I've got a lot of deprogramming still to do. It is posts like this that help, either by providing me with better ways to describe white privilege or by giving me a how-not-to example or just in general giving me more things to think about or different ways of thinking.

    I know that's not why you blog or make these posts--thank you for letting me read and lurk and occasionally comment.

    ReplyDelete

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