7:24:25 PM Dude: Again, you have to understand what is meant by "privilege".
7:25:06 PM Dude: I have… a shit-ton of material that can explain that to you, and maybe that's something you should see before you read the Alcoff article, because she refers to privilege, I think, in a way that presumes the reader already knows the context.
7:25:42 PM Dude: Privilege is not about drawing lines between it and any quantifiable material benefit
7:25:48 PM Dude: It's more abstract than that
7:26:06 PM Dude: again to make it easier...
7:26:50 PM Dude: If you and your brother were to work at the exact same company, doing the exact same job for the exact same wage
7:27:11 PM Dude: and have the exact same standard of living, and all the same financial habits, such that you had the exact same lifestyle
7:27:19 PM Dude: He would still have privilege that you do not, being a man.
7:27:36 PM Dude: how would that priivlege manifest? Well...
7:27:52 PM Dude: For one, he could be guaranteed that no one would assume that he got to his position by sleeping with a boss or someone similar
7:28:11 PM Dude: He can be almost certain to never be a victim of sexual harassment
7:28:32 PM Dude: it is not likely that anyone will talk down to him or patronize him on the basis of him being a man
7:28:43 PM GIRL: brb
7:28:44 PM Dude: assume that he needs help in doing his job
7:28:45 PM GIRL: phone
7:28:46 PM Dude: pk
7:28:48 PM Dude: ok, too
7:32:45 PM GIRL: actually
7:32:49 PM GIRL: gonna go read for a bit too
7:32:56 PM GIRL: will be here on and off
7:33:04 PM Dude: really? That's a bad place to bail out on the conversation.
7:33:17 PM GIRL: sorry
7:33:27 PM GIRL: you actually caught me in the middle of a chapter
7:33:37 PM GIRL: and distracted me
7:33:39 PM GIRL: well done
7:33:54 PM Dude: Yeah, well...
7:34:19 PM Dude: might as well be distracted a bit longer until we come to at least a suitable breaking point
7:34:34 PM Dude: and understanding what is meant by "privilege' is a good one.
7:35:31 PM GIRL: ok
7:39:41 PM Dude: We're talking about systemic privileges here, not individual wages
7:41:21 PM Dude: Oprah is outwardly an optimist herself, and she has a few billions reasons to be...
7:42:02 PM Dude: But what she doesn't talk about much, and you'd probably be hard pressed to get her to talk about, is how she had to navigate the absence of race and gender privilege in her climb to where she is today
7:43:11 PM Dude: and that's reflective of black people's relationship to history in this country; we tend to look forward, rather than backwards, because looking back, things were invariably shitty and we can only hope that it'll be better in the future
7:43:30 PM Dude: whereas white people can reflect on the "Good ol days"
7:43:40 PM Dude: It's just a different relationship with the country
7:43:44 PM GIRL: as far as i know
7:43:50 PM GIRL: most of us don't think about that though
7:43:54 PM GIRL: as with most anyone
7:43:59 PM Dude: Heh, and that's another thing in itself
7:44:10 PM GIRL: we're more focused on what's going on in our daily lives
7:44:13 PM Dude: The freedom to exist in a cultural temporal vaccuum
7:44:29 PM GIRL: as opposed to what happened centuries ago
7:44:31 PM Dude: We tend NOT to reflect back on it, but it is essential to our prosperity that we do
7:44:41 PM Dude: What happened centuries ago IS supremely important to black people
7:44:47 PM Dude: but it does not have to be - and often is not - for white people
7:44:51 PM Dude: such as who we talked about today
7:45:09 PM Dude: the whole "Well, it wasn't me or my ancestors, so why should we have to apologize for anything"
7:45:32 PM Dude: I wasn't enslaved either, but I still have to think back on that shit, because it echoes into the present in some powerful ways.
7:45:37 PM Dude: I do not have the luxury of ignoring history.
7:45:55 PM Dude: not only not ignoring it, but digging for the truth, rather than misrepresentation to serve political agendas
7:46:54 PM GIRL: i don't ignore it
7:47:01 PM Dude: nope, not saying you do
7:47:10 PM Dude: But you have the luxury of being able to ignore it, if you so chose.
7:47:12 PM GIRL: but also don't use it as a basis for how i treat people daily
7:47:15 PM Dude: I would do so at my own peril.
7:47:24 PM Dude: Neither do I.
7:47:28 PM GIRL: i sure as hell don't look down on camden b/c it's mostly black
7:47:33 PM Dude: Not saying you do.
7:47:33 PM GIRL: it would be terrible of me to do that
7:47:42 PM Dude: You're thinking too… heh, black and white about this.
7:47:48 PM Dude: (and I don't mean race in that case)
7:48:53 PM Dude: Having the wages of whiteness, for example, does not translate automatically into material wages - but it does in many ways represent the potential to gain those material wages
7:49:10 PM Dude: Whether or not you do it has nothing to do with the fact that you have that ability that others do not.
~ TBC ~