Adventures of "Dude", Pt. 1

So "Dude", a black man, (he definitely wants to stay nameless for this one) emailed me the AIM transcript of a chat between himself and a young white woman he went on a date with just before the chat.  It's several pages long, so I have to release it to you in tantalizing pieces.

Now, before we begin, I have some Fashion Tips:

1) Sit down. Trust me on this one.
2) Get either a really strong drink or a bucket to puke.
3) Remember to breathe.
4) You may want to schedule a lobotomy after this.

And now....

6:45:20 PM GIRL: so question
6:45:28 PM GIRL: you think blacks can be racist too?
6:45:44 PM GIRL: or rather, non-whites
6:45:49 PM Dude: Not in the same sense
6:46:13 PM Dude: well, "can" - literally? Sure. Can a black person or any POC hate white people simply for their skin or their hair or whatever?
6:46:19 PM Dude: Yeah, of course. Does it ever happen that way? I'd say no.
6:46:40 PM Dude: POC "racism" as it were, and especially "black racism" is always reactionary.
6:47:45 PM Dude: We (to add myself into this) do not hate white people for being white; we don't hate their language, their genes, their music, their art - our animosity is purely about how whiteness affects us politically and socially.
6:48:03 PM Dude: Whereas a white racist can simply look at a black person and make a judgment before that person says or does anything
6:48:10 PM Dude: or even based on a black person's name on an application
6:48:19 PM Dude: that's not how black animosity towards white people work
6:48:59 PM Dude: Are we suspicious and wary by default? Sure, based on strong historical precedents. But a white person can cast aside a lot of that doubt through their actions, their speech, within a short time
6:49:22 PM Dude: not always - because again, this relationship is deeply entrenched - but it's at least possible, because it's not based on any fundamental aspect of a white person's being
6:49:37 PM GIRL: i think for some colored people it is
6:49:43 PM Dude: It's not, I assure you.

6:49:59 PM GIRL: i have talked to blacks who dislike whites on the basis of being white
6:50:04 PM Dude: No you haven't, heh.
6:50:11 PM GIRL: are you familiar with the church of universal practical knowledge
6:50:31 PM Dude: You might have interpreted what they said as such, and maybe they even said it in an unambiguous way (which I doubt), but it's not what they meant.
6:50:36 PM GIRL: (you and i can also walk into the same room with the same people and have 2 very different experiences based on our color and gender)
6:50:55 PM Dude: That name is not familiar to me, though I may know of similar ideologies under a different name
6:51:15 PM Dude: yeah, ok, I am
6:51:23 PM Dude: familiar with the broader ideology, just not that name
6:51:26 PM GIRL: that all american blacks are from the 12 tribes of israel and everyone else works under a false ideology
6:51:53 PM Dude: Yep, they're connected to the Moorish Temple, the Nation of Islam, the Five Percenters, and the NGE by threads
6:52:13 PM GIRL: i'm pretty sure they referred to me as the white devil when i tried to ask them questions
6:52:24 PM Dude: NOI even explicitly called white people devils - but even they, on some level, understand that it's not about white people, but a system
6:52:34 PM Dude: again, though, understand...
6:52:55 PM Dude: That if there were no whiteness system in place, no such thing as white supremacy
6:53:03 PM Dude: these people would not harbor that animosity towards white people at all
6:53:08 PM Dude: it's reactionary
6:53:27 PM Dude: whereas white racism is based on the mere appearance of people and what that has been made to mean
6:53:39 PM Dude: further justified by pseudo-biological justifications
6:53:55 PM GIRL: but does that give them the right to come after people trying to break out of the system based on their skin tone?
6:54:05 PM Dude: IN what sense do you mean "come after" ?
6:54:11 PM GIRL: calling me a white devil
6:54:25 PM Dude: I don't think calling you a white devil is the most practical course of action, no.
6:54:31 PM Dude: It's not very nice, either.
6:54:54 PM Dude: But you have to understand that it's not personal against you, GIRL, but more a reaction to an institution that has been actively hostile towards them
6:55:31 PM Dude: as I mentioned tonight, it is often hard for people to separate individuals from the system
6:55:44 PM Dude: let me put it a different way, too
6:56:01 PM Dude: If you have all this psychological (or even physical) pain and social disenfranchisement on the basis of a black/white dichotomy
6:56:19 PM Dude: and you don't even understand it fully, just that "they" seem to be actively working against your interests
6:56:35 PM Dude: and you don't have a real analytical framework within which to examine these feelings
6:56:50 PM Dude: and then someone comes along and presents you with one - a very easy to understand one
6:56:58 PM GIRL: yup
6:57:01 PM Dude: "white people are devils, that's why..."
6:57:07 PM GIRL: same as with poor whites
6:57:11 PM Dude: exactly
6:57:19 PM GIRL: and them going to hispanics and saying "you took our jobs"
6:57:41 PM Dude: It's more related to that (the took our jobs bit) than it is to white racism
6:57:48 PM GIRL: but those attitudes on either end only perpetuate distrust and hate
6:57:56 PM Dude: If you ask a person who thinks of white people as devils
6:58:00 PM Dude: to explain the basis for that belief
6:58:05 PM Dude: everything they say will be political
6:58:13 PM Dude: if you ask a white racist why they feel a certain way about balck people
6:58:26 PM Dude: it's about black people themselves, not any system, nothing broad
6:58:47 PM Dude: there is something irredeemably wrong with black people for them
6:58:50 PM GIRL: it will be cultural
6:59:06 PM GIRL: and honestly, i feel the same way talking to racist blacks
6:59:08 PM Dude: biological, cultural, linguistic, physical, everything
6:59:11 PM GIRL: i could do anything
6:59:22 PM GIRL: but whatever it is won't matter b/c i'm white
6:59:39 PM Dude: It may be true that there is nothing you can do to change their minds, but that doesn't change the fact that the basis is different
7:00:00 PM Dude: and there is a foreseeable situation in which they could change their minds; take Malcolm X for example
7:00:05 PM Dude: he was one of those preaching about white devils
7:00:18 PM Dude: and all it took was for him to visit Mecca on his hajj to change that view
7:00:25 PM GIRL: but he also gave people a lot of much-needed empowerment
7:00:28 PM Dude: There was nothing white people in the U.S. could do to change his mind
7:00:37 PM Dude: it was something he had to find out for himself
7:00:41 PM Dude: self-determination
7:01:00 PM Dude: yeah I'm not talking about Malcolm as a broader figure, just his anti-white views at a certain point in his life
7:01:04 PM Dude: and how he came to terms with that
7:01:23 PM Dude: Malcolm was hyper-critical of white liberals in particular; the same people who felt as you do "no matter what I do, he'll still jsut hate me.."
7:02:23 PM Dude: Point is… there is a way to navigate the space between animosity towards whiteness and fellowship with white people
7:02:30 PM Dude: I know this because I exist in that space.
7:03:27 PM Dude: I personally think - and frequently - "Man, I hate white people". But I understand that my qualms are not with any individual, usually, but with the institution.
7:03:53 PM Dude: One more way to look at it...
7:04:05 PM Dude: Would it seem to be a contradiction, if I were to say to you..
7:04:36 PM Dude: I hate white people as a group, but I don't hate Irish, Polish, Russian, Italian, French, or Jewish people as groups?
7:04:47 PM GIRL: i'd call you a racist
7:04:54 PM GIRL: maybe a nationalist
7:04:55 PM Dude: Yeah, but you'd be incorrect.
7:05:22 PM Dude: Because I don't look at a white person and feel hatred.
7:05:39 PM Dude: I don't have any animosity towards the cultural traditions of any of those groups I named
7:05:55 PM Dude: and I don't know much about them biologically, nor do I care, since that's not the basis for any judgment I have
7:06:35 PM Dude: I have no automatic distaste or bias towards the way Irish people speak English, or Russian language as a whole.
7:07:03 PM Dude: Whatever Irish, Russian, Italian clothing styles may be, or whatever the music of their cultures are, I don't hate them, where I even know of them
7:07:24 PM Dude: And I'm certainly not a nationalist, since I unequivocally despise the country I live in.
7:07:38 PM Dude: about that, too...
7:07:59 PM Dude: kind of separate, but related… where a nation is ethnically homogenous for the most part, nationalism equates to racism
7:08:14 PM Dude: Again, my feelings are always reactionary
7:08:38 PM Dude: whenever I've thought or felt "man I hate white people…", it is never a default stance, it is always in response to something I read, hear, or personally witness
7:08:50 PM Dude: not witness, experience.
7:10:49 PM GIRL: so if you don't like the US, where would you rather live and why?
7:11:15 PM Dude: haven't figured that out yet, still researching, as I have some experience with moving out of the country and completely failing to sustain myself
7:11:27 PM Dude: but the current top candidate is Trinidad
7:14:11 PM Dude: and even that - my disillusionment with the U.S. - is reactionary
7:14:32 PM Dude: There is a prospective U.S. that I could come to love; I just don't foresee it becoming that in my lifetime, and it certainly is not that right now.

7:19:05 PM GIRL: you and i have very different viewpoints
7:19:16 PM GIRL: or at least very different takes
7:19:28 PM GIRL: i tend to be a little more optomistic
7:19:38 PM Dude: That may be a luxury you have that I do not.
7:19:47 PM Dude: And relates to privilege.
7:19:56 PM GIRL: heh
7:19:58 PM GIRL: i'm not so sure
7:20:04 PM GIRL: i'm a lot of things
7:20:06 PM Dude: I am. I can explain that, too.
7:20:17 PM Dude: Not your reasons for being optimistic
7:20:18 PM GIRL: privileged may not be one
7:20:23 PM Dude: no, you are.
7:20:28 PM Dude: By default because you can be enrolled in whiteness.
7:21:01 PM Dude: Let me switch contexts to make that a little easier to swallow.
7:21:11 PM Dude: I am privileged as a man in ways that you are not for being a woman.
7:21:25 PM Dude: I am privileged in ways as a heterosexual male in ways that a gay man is not.
7:21:48 PM Dude: But I am distinctly underprivileged on the basis of my "race".
7:22:18 PM Dude: and for that, and for what it has meant for me historically and personally, optimism is not something I usually can afford.
7:22:39 PM Dude: I think there may be a slight disconnect here in what is meant by privilege, too
7:23:23 PM GIRL: well
7:23:25 PM Dude: It does not refer to - necessarily - any tangible material wealth for every individual, though there is a relationship to such wealth
7:23:25 PM GIRL: rephrase
7:23:41 PM GIRL: compared to the people in camden, yes, i'm highly privileged
7:23:49 PM GIRL: i've graduated and have a computer in my house
7:23:54 PM Dude: not even talking about that
7:24:01 PM Dude: You're privileged even compared to Oprah Winfrey.
7:24:13 PM GIRL: doubtful
7:24:16 PM Dude: No, certainly.

~ TBC ~


  1. Girl does not get that racism isn't this little attitude that exists in a vacuum with each individual. Guy has a LOT of patience.

  2. I just can't have conversations like this with them. See this kind of conversation in person would require restraints and an anesthetic!

    **off to enjoy my bottle of wine**

  3. I am alright it was twitch of annoyance but not full blown, let's see if I can stomach the rest. Bring them on.

  4. @ Aiyo

    I wouldn't be so eager if I were you.

  5. LOL, typical...she is listening without ACTUALLY listening... To be honest I dont know if she was being obtuse on purpose or she was just ignoring his experiences/claims despite how well he broke it down

  6. Sooooo glad I didn't eat before I read this!

  7. Just one question: did they date again after this? I ask because I can see it ending in a verbal knock-down-drag-out.

  8. How badly does he REALLY want to get in her pants? Because that's the only reason I see for him to be bothered with this willfully dense chick.

  9. she's just none too smart...or is very young.

    i don't know why he's wasting his time on her.

  10. I have a feeling the rest will give me an intense migrane.

  11. This guy has a lot of patience, like much more than I do. And I consider myself a pretty patient person.

    But I wonder at his motives? I mean here he is using his precious time (that he can never get back) to explain something that this girl isn't getting (and prolly doesn't even *want* to get IMHO) and for what end? In my experience convos like these no matter how much you try to explain or give facts or figures usually end up with the WP telling me that I'm just "blaming whitey" being oversensitive or that I've been brainwashed into thinking the US is a bad country (no joke it's been done)

    I guess I'll wait apprehensively for the rest... after a cig and copious amounts of alcohol.

  12. This has me wondering if the GIRL is even listening to what DUDE is saying.

  13. When I was young and naive I used to have this kind of discussion (I did part of my scholarship in France), so I know too well where it is heading.

    Heck, I don’t even need the drink and the bucket anymore. I’m a seasoned veteran.

    The little curiosity I have left is focused on the answer to this one question: was this conversation eye-opening enough for this “dude” guy to reconsider his dating habits?

    Unfortunately, records tend to show that Black people never learn…

  14. tldr:
    PoC dont hate white people, we hate oppressors. It just so happens that almost every single oppressor is white and almost every single white person is an oppressor of varying degrees.
    And, of course, this situation is entirely not of our doing. It was white people who decided to create a system of oppression and privilege.

  15. Oooh it gets that bad? Now I'm nervous I have experience downright stupid arse ones and this is very tame in comparison but I will brace myself.

  16. *blinks 10 times*

    Did misread that 20 times or did she use the term colored people in 2010?

  17. Witchsistah said...
    "How badly does he REALLY want to get in her pants? Because that's the only reason I see for him to be bothered with this willfully dense chick."

    I was thinking the same thing...
    Course we may never know; I guess it depends on which head is actually holding the conversation. Both heads can be clever and engaging. One can reason while the other... well one can reason. The smaller head endures and is patient- longsuffering and a damned good listener. Forbearing a multitude of faults- defects and shortcomings to obtain its objective. This girl is being willfully obtuse, no two ways about it. A shortcoming the smaller head is more than willing to overlook.

  18. @ neo-prodigy

    LOL yeah I filed that away as a wtf but the fact that "dude" didn't respond to it in any way somehow made it seem like it never happened.

  19. ~ Did I misread that 20 times or did she use the term colored people in 2010?

    ~ LOL yeah I filed that away as a wtf but the fact that "dude" didn't respond to it in any way somehow made it seem like it never happened.

    LMAO - wasn't just Moi!

  20. PoC dont hate white people, we hate oppressors. It just so happens that almost every single oppressor is white and almost every single white person is an oppressor of varying degrees.
    And, of course, this situation is entirely not of our doing. It was white people who decided to create a system of oppression and privilege.

    Ding ding ding!!!


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