Men of Color, Please Don't Do This

Please, please, please do not confuse a white chick's racism with your own sexism.  You really humiliate yourselves when you do so (and men, before you protest, remember the lack of insight which comes with having certain "privileges").

This was shared with me on the "Shattered Pedestal" post.  A certain blogger of color had an experience with what some POC refer to as a WAP, or "White American Princess".  If you're not sure what that is, read "Shattered Pedestal".

Basically, the WAP entered the bar the blogger was at dressed like a skank.  She talked/flirted with him for - by his own estimate - about 10 minutes.  After that, the WAP's friends descended en masse and swept her out of there.  But...the WAP left her phone, so the blogger contacted her via Facebook the next day to return it to her.

Their conversation?  *shudder*
Blogger of Color: Have you lost your cell?

White American Princess: YES!!!! YOU FOUND IT? A RED CRAZER???? THANKS SO MUCH!! I can pick it up!!! Where, When works for you???

BOC: Do you know who I am?

WAP: Um, no sorry…

BOC: Hmm..So, do you want it or not?

WAP: yes please!!! I can pick it up, where/when works for you?

BOC: what is in it for me, leopard nightie gal with 7 tattoos? PS- You left it in front on me when we were talking at xxxxx xxxxxxx, and then your “friends” dragged you out. Did they at least drop you home?

WAP: Hahahaha the joy of knowing that you helped me out… ;)

BOC: ya sure…

WAP: come on

BOC: what..BTW you ‘friends’ were texting you a lot this morning.

WAP: Can I please come get my phone? :)

BOC: Sure.. come in your getup from yesterday. It caught my attention.

WAP: Hahaha! We were doing the underwear affair before and came straight to our friends birthday

BOC: Believe me I saw a lot of you.. and you are a big girl. When we talked for about 10 minutes, you actually came across as pretty friendly- compared to your ‘friends’.

WAP: I don’t really know what to say to that. Can I please get my phone?

BOC: It is not that you don’t know what to say. You are just full of yourself.. though less than your friends.

WAP: I am not really sure why you are insulting me. I am sorry if I offended you but I would really appreciate it if I could get my phone

BOC: What is in it for me? Why should I care? Can you not read between the lines?

WAP: I remember talking to you. I thought you were friendly as well. I am sorry if I gave you the wrong idea. We were dressed up for the charity event we had just come from. I do not usually dress that way. I am not that kind of person.

BOC: So what kind of person are you? and what wrong idea did you give me?

WAP: I am a student. I don’t know what idea I gave you about me other than that I came to the bar in that outfit which could give anyone the wrong idea I guess

BOC: You know, I am not into chubby gals.. but I did like you.

WAP: Thanks. Can I please get my phone?

BOC: Can you read between the lines? or you don’t want to?

WAP: I know exactly what you are saying. I thought I was clear in my response. If you are not willing to give me my phone that is your perogative. Please just tell me either way.

BOC: In that case, I hope you have backed up your phone numbers/contacts/etc. You see, I have no duty to return lost stuff. As far as I am concerned, it may already be in a trash bin… as I do not keep someone else’s stuff on me. Bye.
Ewwwwwww...so not kosher, guys.

What the Guy Did Wrong

The comments which follow the blogger's post give some additional insight, but nothing to justify his behavior whatsoever.  This.Was.Not.Cool - period.  For one, it makes the blogger out to be a pig. After ten minutes of talking to a woman, he expects sex?  Seriously?  And if he doesn't get it right away, he tries to weasel it out of her by hanging onto her phone?

Ewwwwwwwww.  Show of hands, ladies: which one of you would sleep with some weirdo you left at a bar just to get your phone back?

*crickets*

That's what the hell I thought.  Moving on....

Secondly, this whole scene makes the blogger sound conflicted.  For one, his own comments illustrate he doesn't really care much for white people ("It is they [white people] who need to build a bridge, as demographics and the direction of technology is not in their favor", etc.) and yet he went to an awful lot of trouble to try to bed a white girl.

And for two, he says he doesn't like "chubby girls" and yet again...an awful lot of trouble.  He later clarifies the WAP is size 12-14, which by the way, is normal for your average, healthy, fully developed woman; in other words, 12-14 is not "chubby"....though "thick" applies quite nicely.

Thirdly, this whole fiasco makes the blogger look desperate...and I cannot stress to you just how unattractive that is.  Rule #1: always maintain self-respect.  Forget other people's respect; have yours firmly established first.  There was zero self-respect here.  Hell, the WAP who walked into a bar wearing lingerie and playing a tease ended up with the most self-respect here (though not much, mind you).

She up and left amidst their conversation.  She didn't tell her friends to back off, she didn't take the time to exchange numbers with the blogger, she didn't do anything to ensure she'd go out or have a brief tryst with him (and guys, when we want you...we want you.  Ain't no friends of ours gettin' in the way of us tapping if we really want you...let me make that clear right now).

So to her, their 10 minutes meant both jack and diddly.  She honestly, truly, most likely didn't remember him the next day, at least not right away.  If she had the gall to walk into a bar dressed like a skank and chat up a complete stranger - complete with cuddling and fondling, supposedly - then the blogger was probably just another notch on her garter belt and "who he really was" be damned.

The moment she left, the blogger should've had the sense to simply leave her phone at the bar and give the bartender a heads up before moving on to someone else.

What the Girl Did Wrong

Ladies...stop dressing like whores.

If you ain't workin' a corner or a high-class service and thus not gettin' a fat check outta this, cover that shit.  Because this is precisely what happens when you advertise what you ain't sellin', and I don't know how many different times and ways women have to be told this.  The "I don't always dress like this; I'm not that kind of person" line never gets you out of this type of bullshit the morning after.

FYI, chicas, skankwear is not an expression of "feminism".  Only a whiny bitch with white privilege and a Daddy issue or two would think that a G-string and a sheer dress is "freedom".  A cute miniskirt is one thing, and a micro with leggings another, but when all your shit is hanging out in a public venue, it's time to speak with a therapist.

You are not "oppressed" when you cover up.  Only very delusional and uninformed women think this.  And you are a not prude or a cold fish if you abstain from fucking strangers.  And no...simply teasing strangers isn't the "safe" alternative.  It's the dumb alternative.  It's the rape statistic alternative.  It's the stalker alternative.

So for the love of God, ladies, stop being such attention whores.  You don't need every man's attention.  You just need the attention of one good man (if you're even into men, that is), and even so, you ain't got to marry him right off the bat.  It's okay to have someone responsible and mature, who drives his own car, lives in his own apartment/house, buys your drinks from the "top shelf", and walks your ass to your door at night.  Someone who - when you finally do get nekkid together - will actually take the time to give two shits about what's going on with your body.

He doesn't need to be rich.  He doesn't need to have a model's face or a six-pack.  He doesn't need to have an exciting job or a "mysterious" past.  He does, however, need to be a decent human being.

And ladies, don't leave your phone at a bar.  Your manicurist's?  Okay.  Your hair stylist's?  Sure.  Even the home of that one relative you absolutely cannot stand is a better candidate than a friggin' barPay attention to shit, ladies, and quit opening yourselves up to this type of nonsense.  Because that's the cold hard truth here, children; what happened to this girl was disgusting...but she opened herself up to it.

*shudder*

Comments

  1. This guy definitely has issues with women. I read some of his posts about the turning point where he started to treat women differently. Basically he went 4-5 months without sex and couldn't get into a long term relationship so he is bitter. Honestly he sounds like one of those former "nice guys" the passive aggressive types who lusted after women above their looks and got rejected.

    We've all been rejected before, doesn't give one the right to be a permanent asshole.

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  2. Damn! I don't even know what to say. The whole situation is deeply disturbing and dangerous as hell for the woman.

    Freedom requires discipline, maturity and sound decision making. That ain't what happened here.

    He's a seriously fucked up individual and she needs to get her shit together. It's an insane world we inhabit ladies.

    We have to be careful out here.

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  3. It's an insane world we inhabit ladies.

    We have to be careful out here.


    That's all I'm sayin'!!!

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  4. Great analysis!

    I was recently reading a post about street harrassment, and this exchange reminded me of the contradictory messages men send on the street when women ignore them:

    Man: Hey sexy!

    Woman: *says nothing*

    Man: That's why you're a stuck-up/ugly/nappy-headed bitch anyway!

    Do men really not realize how little sense this makes?

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  5. As I told DA, she doesnt have to have sex with you if she doesnt want to. End of story. However I DO think it was wrong for her to be so suggestive then act brand new the next day. And I have seen numerous WAP behave in the same manner.

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  6. Yeah DA is definitely a tainted example.

    Look what he posted tonight http://dissention.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/sadistic-behavior-1/

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  7. @ Y,

    Unfortunately, the Madonna-Whore bait & switch isn't exclusive to WAP.

    I won't say racism doesn't factor into this scenario, but damn...the sexism was coming off in massive waves.

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  8. @ Y,

    Those anecdotes are disgusting. DA is a truly troubled man.

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  9. Did you read some of his other posts? It is really disturbing, and this WAP is not the first one. He has some serious issues when it comes to women, he see all of them as crap by default, and anything any woman do that is other than "yes, fuck me now" is seen by him as the opportunity to trash a woman and dehumanize her (because he believes she dehumanized him).

    I got the idea he mainly goes for white women (due to demographic reasons, he says) so yes, I do believe these women racism do play an important part in rejections. I do believe there were many WAPs who just wanted to have sex with him, but were ashamed to introduce him to their friends and family. Which sucks (and proves my point, btw- men don't like to be anyone's "dirty little secrets" any more than women). So I understand he was hurt by racism and rejection.

    But that in NO WAY excuses his behaviour! Just like someone's femininity doesn't excuse her racism, his minority status and other people's racism doesn't excuse his own sexism!

    Let me repeat that: other people's racism doesn't excuse his sexism; if he knows how discrimination hurts he should not be discriminating others!*

    *And despite what he says, I'm getting the sexist vibe from this guy towards all the women, not just "racist bitches" that rejected him, so basically all you have to be is female (bonus if you're white) and you are seen as less than human in his eyes.

    As for dressing provocatively, as horrible as this may sound*, it is true it can get you in trouble.

    *But this is not an excuse of a rape, for example. You can go out naked and that still doesn't make any rapist any less guilty. After all, rape is more about power and control and not sexual lust. But I agree, to save yourself some trouble, don't expose your private parts to random guys at a bar. I thought it was, well, obvious, but I guess some girls didn't get the memo.

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  10. I don't know - I agree with you about the BOC's creepassness, but I disagree about the women dressing as "sluts" thing.

    Realistically, I understand that it is not smart to dress like that because there are a lot of disgusting, violent men out there who choose to see it as an invitation (note: the fault lies with the guys not the ladies).

    But idealistically, I think any woman can dress, tease anyone, etc. without being harassed. If a guy doesn't like what she's doing, then just drop her. There are other women who don't get off on playing mind games.

    I see it akin to having money hanging out your pants while in a big city - ideally, you SHOULD be able to do it without anyone bothering you, but realistically, that just isn't going to happen........Man, I hate the way the world works....

    Although! mixed into this is that whole idea that WHITE women tease guys of color just because they believe their whiteness allows them the privilege to act without courtesy - something they wouldn't do with white guys. Like, I just imagine a white woman accusing a white man of rape versus her accusing a black man of rape. Regardless of the ACTUAL circumstances, in the first scenario, SHE'D be the slut. In the 2nd one, HE'D be beaten. And I'm sure the white woman knows that...

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  11. Tahiti,

    I believe that if you do something wrong, you should be punished. What that WAP did was wrong. The icky convo she had with the blogger the next day was her punishment.

    Women who play the tease are selfish, narcissistic, and disrespectful to their fellow humans. This is a behavior we as a society cannot tolerate and should not encourage, because ironically, in an ideal society...women wouldn't behave like this at all.

    Most communication between humans is nonverbal. What she communicated nonverbally was deceitful.

    Now...I respect sex workers. I've been watching "Satisfaction" on Netflix and I've been reading a lot about the profession and their struggle for rights. When women behave like this WAP did, they ain't exactly helping the cause.

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  12. Moi- you are assuming WAY too much about this situation. You're assuming MORE about it than HE said- and we're getting HIS account.
    He NEVER said that they "flirted" he said "We chatted for about 10 minutes and her ‘friends’ pulled her away and left".

    Did he put up a video somewhere that shows her flirting and not just making polite small talk while trying to find an excuse to get away and shooting "SAVE ME" looks at her friends?

    "She was pulling her dress down almost every minute"- that sounds like someone who is NOT comfortable to be dressed the way she is, but someone who's desperately trying to cover up. Do you flirt well with complete strangers when you're dressed in something that makes you feel extremely uncomfortable? It sounds to me that what SHE communicated was 100% truthful.


    And, also, calling entitlement to her body and invasion of her privacy "punishment"? No.
    What if he had gotten ahold of some of her friends and asked if they could give him her address so he could return it- and he then went over to her house to get what he thinks he deserves? Would she have deserved that? This is the same guy who sees nothing wrong with setting up a woman who's made it clear she has NO interest in you to be gang raped.

    If the situation were that the guy had only looked trhough her phone enough to find out how to contact her, if the conversation had been him telling her off for dressing like that and being so careless about her phone, and telling her that he won't give her back because she needs to learn to be more careful? I think that would be a pretty alright punishment. But having a man VIOLATE HER PRIVACY and make it clear that he EXPECTS sex from someone who, from what we can tell, HAS SHOWN NO INTEREST IN HIM? That's not punishment. That's ABUSE.

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  13. Funny. You're assuming waaaay too much about what I said.

    In fact, I think you either didn't fully read me, or I struck a nerve.

    Reread, if you want to continue this, and do so carefully.

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  14. It's possible that I didn't fully read you- and, yes, saying that using rape culture to police women is good and sexual harassment is a "punishment" does strike a nerve, funnily enough.


    Here are your quotes which I find objectionable:
    "She talked/flirted with him for - by his own estimate - about 10 minutes" (nowhere does it say she flirted with him)

    "You just need the attention of one good man" Because polyamory is bad, I guess, God forbid a woman need more than one man. Or, even worse, that she just WANTS more than one.

    "I believe that if you do something wrong, you should be punished. What that WAP did was wrong. The icky convo she had with the blogger the next day was her punishment." That conversation was harassment. This is saying that harassment is an acceptable punishment for dressing inappopriately.

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  15. You know…I tried to be nice….

    This deadbeat brand of white feminism isn’t going to fly on this blog. The conversation these two had the next day was a consequence, in part brought about by the woman’s own behavior and decision-making. Calling it harassment doesn’t change that, and I never fail to notice how [some] women try to gloss right by the notion of accountability. Cause and effect, ladies; you screw up, and the universe screws you right back.

    There’s a reason why lines like “I don’t normally dress like this” receive such copious amounts of ridicule from men. They ain't buying, they ain't renting it, they ain't putting on layaway and they're not taking a raincheck.

    This notion that a woman should be able to wear whatever she wants – or even nothing if she wants – behave however she wants, wherever she wants, and then not have to deal with any consequences whatsoever is delusional, privileged, and self-indulgent American thinking. It is an expectation so far removed from reality that it cannot incur anything but derision.

    Furthermore, outfit aside, if she wasn’t interested, then they shouldn’t have been chatting – period. She should’ve nipped it in the bud the moment he approached. I understand some of you ladies want to run that “I don’t want to be mean/don’t want to hurt his feelings” game and try to score some free drinks. ‘Tis a school of thought to which I simply do not co-sign. When a man I’m not interested in approaches me, I make sure to give off the do-NOT-fuck-with-me vibe right away. I don’t need or want him to buy me anything; I’m not desperate for free drinks and/or attention. I don’t need a stranger in a bar to validate Moi. I have no trouble telling a man I’m not digging that if he touches my hair, my knee, my thigh or what have you, I’ll break his fucking fingers. To hell with appearing “nice” and to hell with his feelings; I’m a survivor. And if I’m forgetful enough to leave my phone at a friggin’ bar, and some perv contacts me the next day, I’ll be honest: I would ask for my phone back, politely, once.

    Just once.

    After that, if he tries to play sicko with me, I’d write back the kind of dick-withering fever he wouldn’t want to post on his blog, and my cell phone be damned.* Now, if this makes me yet another angry black bitch, then by all means, boo-boo – I’ll take the diamond tiara with a matching sash and scepter, please. *nods* Thank you.

    *Readers should be aware that I’m the deliriously happy owner of a DROID, which I love more than all my unborn children. I would be willing to give up said DROID in a heartbeat rather than I have a drawn-out, bullshit conversation with some douche from a bar.

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  16. Part Three

    Now Chartreuse (may I call you Chartreuse?),…I don’t know how you roll, but I think trying to invite and enjoy the amorous attentions of multiple persons is a problematic adolescent fantasy. It is an attention-seeking behavior borne of inferiority complexes and various other "issues" some people tend to have. Every bulimic, lush, cutter, promiscuous and/or otherwise disturbed or unfulfilled person (be they client, friend, or coworker) whom I’ve ever known has tried to bring this fantasy into reality. Call me old and cynical, but I’ve lived long enough to see it always turn ugly.

    Everyone thinks they can handle it until the name-calling starts, the fights break out, and that one crazy stalker who nobody saw coming suddenly emerges from the fold. Eventually, the drama queen who started it all (male or female) gets branded a worthless drunken slut, and is ultimately left out in the cold.

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